5 ms·

Caste violence erupts in India over 200-year-old faultline

40 points by kimsk112 9y ago

known 9y ago
Check this Advertisement in News Paper to hire Upper caste/Brahmin/Bania/Kshatriya to clean drainage/toilets in India to know about current status of Caste system in India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Xaviers-NGO-seeks-toilet-cleaners-from-gen-category/articleshow/52876770.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Xaviers-NG...
fellellor 9y ago
Caste is a very complicated issue. It's not all black and white, oppressed against the oppressor. It's a major fault line in Hindu society today which has been used by politicians to divide the voters into fiefdoms. It is also one of the reasons why despite India having functional elections, has a under performing political class. Indian politicians flourish even when they grossly under deliver thanks to the caste divisions they nourish in the society.
- HenryTheHorse 9y ago
  > It's not all black and white, oppressed against the oppressor. How's it not so? (Asking, not flaming. I know this is a complex topic and invariably leads to shouting matches.) The idea of caste being used as a means and justification for oppression, violence etc is just plain wrong. I don't think it could be more black and white - to borrow another loaded figure of speech.
  - known 9y ago
    Caste system is an Organized Mafia in India http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/wquRqpqgRGfDP58kN9BNOM/caste-matters-everywhere-schools-jobs-or-life-at-large.html http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/wquRqpqgRGfDP58kN9BNOM/caste...
  - thisisit 9y ago
    Because of reservation and representation. Think about this - In US instead of having affirmative action[1] it was legally mandated to hire about 30-50% of non-Caucasian for any government job ie quota. What ramifications will it have on the society? [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action
kimsk112 9y ago
I have read about the caste system and issue in India. I have lot of Indian friends in US, but I never feel that there is any caste system among them. Is that just my experience (maybe my ignorance)?
- known 9y ago
  Nepotism also runs strong in India. Nearly 85% of the country’s businesses are family-run, and Bollywood is dominated by just a few families. Even job-seekers with impressive resumes have to fall back on personal connections to find work http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/world/asia/12iht-letter12.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/world/asia/12iht-letter12....
- thrwyindian7898 9y ago
  Indian-American born and brought up in the States. We never discussed caste. It was a non-issue. Prime Minister Modi is also Low Caste. That didn't stop him from being elected.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    Having said that caste discrimination is a problem in the UK in fact I know one of the MP's that helped add caste discrimination to the Equality Act 2010. Of course this is being opposed by "community leaders". Interesting a woman from my home town was recently abused for being low caste. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38663143 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38663143 It would be interesting to beak down H1B's by caste
    - known 9y ago
      https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/anti-caste-discrimination-legislation https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/anti-caste-discrimina...
      - walshemj 9y ago
        Interesting ill have to send that to Parmjit - doesn't seem to have got any messages sent yet unfortunately.
aaronchall 9y ago
Why can't we all just get along? If we disagree, let's agree to disagree without violence? How can our increasingly global society grow robust to provocations?
throwaway21442 9y ago
It does not get emphasized enough, but the caste system in India is a very very complicated issue. Any effort create a simple mental model for it (say, by mapping it to racial apartheid) would not take one closer to real understanding. For those interested, here is a good piece by Venkatesh Rao which touches upon this subject: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/11/10/king-ruinous-and-the-city-of-darkness/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/11/10/king-ruinous-and-the-c... As to the specific incident in the news, I would only say that it is not hard to find a couple hundred men for Rs. 500 who would go about trashing cars and buses for a few hours, while the police would have instructions not to act too strongly against them, for fear of further conflagration. Once this is done, it is all up to journalists, op-ed writers to offer up (and amplify) their favorite perspectives.
- casterOil 9y ago
  Here’s my simple mental model: People use bullshit reasons to be dicks to each other. Sometimes people are legit trashy, so fuck them, but other times trashy people are nice and it’s the elitists who are assholes. The bullshit reasons originate from religious mythology (read: made up fiction that conveniently excludes scumbags born into shit, fucking them for life, and leaving their children to inherit the same mistreatment), but the crux of the matter is who gets to fuck bitches and why. Arranged marriages and dowry compensation come bundled with what amounts to a regional, cultural and thus religious form of brand recognition. Slutty girls get sold to scummy dudes on the cheap, but sometimes a scummy dude has the money, and still can’t buy his way into the game. Compound this over generations and people get angry and stay angry when they die feeling jilted by the assholes they share daily life with. It gets worse when they watch it happen to their kids who are probably accidents anyway.
nonamechicken 9y ago
Didn't know that dalits fought with British to bring India under British rule. Interesting.
- throwaway21442 9y ago
  They didn't. Moreover, the British stopped hiring them towards the end of the century in favour of the (as the British classified them) "martial castes". Please don't extrapolate from just one battle with a few hundred soldiers to the vast history of British colonization.
senatorobama 9y ago
Name me a 5000 year old society without these problems.

40 points by kimsk112 9y ago

Check this Advertisement in News Paper to hire Upper caste/Brahmin/Bania/Kshatriya to clean drainage/toilets in India to know about current status of Caste system in India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Xaviers-NGO-seeks-toilet-cleaners-from-gen-category/articleshow/52876770.cms http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/Xaviers-NG...

fellellor 9y ago

Caste is a very complicated issue. It's not all black and white, oppressed against the oppressor. It's a major fault line in Hindu society today which has been used by politicians to divide the voters into fiefdoms. It is also one of the reasons why despite India having functional elections, has a under performing political class. Indian politicians flourish even when they grossly under deliver thanks to the caste divisions they nourish in the society.

HenryTheHorse 9y ago
> It's not all black and white, oppressed against the oppressor. How's it not so? (Asking, not flaming. I know this is a complex topic and invariably leads to shouting matches.) The idea of caste being used as a means and justification for oppression, violence etc is just plain wrong. I don't think it could be more black and white - to borrow another loaded figure of speech.
- known 9y ago
  Caste system is an Organized Mafia in India http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/wquRqpqgRGfDP58kN9BNOM/caste-matters-everywhere-schools-jobs-or-life-at-large.html http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/wquRqpqgRGfDP58kN9BNOM/caste...
- thisisit 9y ago
  Because of reservation and representation. Think about this - In US instead of having affirmative action[1] it was legally mandated to hire about 30-50% of non-Caucasian for any government job ie quota. What ramifications will it have on the society? [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

kimsk112 9y ago

I have read about the caste system and issue in India. I have lot of Indian friends in US, but I never feel that there is any caste system among them. Is that just my experience (maybe my ignorance)?

known 9y ago
Nepotism also runs strong in India. Nearly 85% of the country’s businesses are family-run, and Bollywood is dominated by just a few families. Even job-seekers with impressive resumes have to fall back on personal connections to find work http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/world/asia/12iht-letter12.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/12/world/asia/12iht-letter12....
thrwyindian7898 9y ago
Indian-American born and brought up in the States. We never discussed caste. It was a non-issue. Prime Minister Modi is also Low Caste. That didn't stop him from being elected.
- walshemj 9y ago
  Having said that caste discrimination is a problem in the UK in fact I know one of the MP's that helped add caste discrimination to the Equality Act 2010. Of course this is being opposed by "community leaders". Interesting a woman from my home town was recently abused for being low caste. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38663143 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38663143 It would be interesting to beak down H1B's by caste
  - known 9y ago
    https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/anti-caste-discrimination-legislation https://www.petition2congress.com/ctas/anti-caste-discrimina...
    - walshemj 9y ago
      Interesting ill have to send that to Parmjit - doesn't seem to have got any messages sent yet unfortunately.

aaronchall 9y ago

Why can't we all just get along? If we disagree, let's agree to disagree without violence? How can our increasingly global society grow robust to provocations?

throwaway21442 9y ago

It does not get emphasized enough, but the caste system in India is a very very complicated issue. Any effort create a simple mental model for it (say, by mapping it to racial apartheid) would not take one closer to real understanding. For those interested, here is a good piece by Venkatesh Rao which touches upon this subject: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/11/10/king-ruinous-and-the-city-of-darkness/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/11/10/king-ruinous-and-the-c... As to the specific incident in the news, I would only say that it is not hard to find a couple hundred men for Rs. 500 who would go about trashing cars and buses for a few hours, while the police would have instructions not to act too strongly against them, for fear of further conflagration. Once this is done, it is all up to journalists, op-ed writers to offer up (and amplify) their favorite perspectives.

casterOil 9y ago
Here’s my simple mental model: People use bullshit reasons to be dicks to each other. Sometimes people are legit trashy, so fuck them, but other times trashy people are nice and it’s the elitists who are assholes. The bullshit reasons originate from religious mythology (read: made up fiction that conveniently excludes scumbags born into shit, fucking them for life, and leaving their children to inherit the same mistreatment), but the crux of the matter is who gets to fuck bitches and why. Arranged marriages and dowry compensation come bundled with what amounts to a regional, cultural and thus religious form of brand recognition. Slutty girls get sold to scummy dudes on the cheap, but sometimes a scummy dude has the money, and still can’t buy his way into the game. Compound this over generations and people get angry and stay angry when they die feeling jilted by the assholes they share daily life with. It gets worse when they watch it happen to their kids who are probably accidents anyway.

nonamechicken 9y ago

Didn't know that dalits fought with British to bring India under British rule. Interesting.

throwaway21442 9y ago
They didn't. Moreover, the British stopped hiring them towards the end of the century in favour of the (as the British classified them) "martial castes". Please don't extrapolate from just one battle with a few hundred soldiers to the vast history of British colonization.

senatorobama 9y ago

Name me a 5000 year old society without these problems.