6 ms·

Interesting move, to give free access. You would think that, withholding access is a great way for Elsivier to increase pressure in the negotiation. The fact, t

Interesting move, to give free access. You would think that, withholding access is a great way for Elsivier to increase pressure in the negotiation. The fact, that they are not doing it, shows how weak their position really is. Researchers will (and have) find effective ways to share research results w/o traditional publishers. This would surface very quickly once access was temporarily revoked.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> shows how weak their position really is Or Elsevier’s belief that the opposition is tenuously formed. If temporary free access prompts a critical mass to decamp, Elsevier will have staved off both permanence and precedent.
- revelation 9y ago
  If a critical mass decamps, they still don't have a contract with Elsevier. I don't see how granting free access unilaterally improves their negotiation position other than goodwill in manipulating the executive and legislative government..
- Vinnl 9y ago
  Why would that prompt them to decamp?
  - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
    > Why would that prompt them to decamp? People tend to become politically involved (loosely defined) when desperate. Remove the source of desperation and engagement fades. Convincing people to come to a meeting or go to a rally or draft a letter to the dean or call or write to their representative gets harder when the problem goes from specific, e.g. I need X study to write my paper, to abstract.
    - Vinnl 9y ago
      But there was no source of desperation yet - there has not been a period in which researchers have not had access. (Well, technically, there was a short one at the start of last year IIRC, but Elsevier prolonged access then just as well.)
      - gkya 9y ago
        I'd guess most researchers use libraries' copies of these pricy papers. So it's mostly about tax money Elsevier forces university libraries to pay all around the world. And also independent researchers.
        Vinnl 9y ago
        Yes, and those libraries are the ones whose access was extended free of charge.
  - GunlogAlm 9y ago
    Temporarily, presumably because they now have free access? At least amongst those who simply want access in the short-term, and aren't hardcore campaigners for the cause.
    - Vinnl 9y ago
      I don't think the negotiators representing the German universities belong in that camp :)
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        > I don't think the negotiators representing the German universities belong in that camp Some fraction of the people whose support is necessary for the negotiators to remain empowered are. The question is how many.
        Vinnl 9y ago
        Of course, but if they no longer really care about open access because they got some free access for now (which I really think is the case for practically zero of them), they also probably don't care enough to actively tell the negotiators that they're withdrawing support.
- teniutza 9y ago
  They must also have good PR. It's not like they don't have money to hire someone good. I think it's partially a PR move. In recent years, their image has been shaken, as they have been accused of being greedy. Now, all this shaking has brought them face to face with a big "client", with a strong hand. "Hey, look, I can be nice too!"

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> shows how weak their position really is Or Elsevier’s belief that the opposition is tenuously formed. If temporary free access prompts a critical mass to decamp, Elsevier will have staved off both permanence and precedent.

revelation 9y ago
If a critical mass decamps, they still don't have a contract with Elsevier. I don't see how granting free access unilaterally improves their negotiation position other than goodwill in manipulating the executive and legislative government..
Vinnl 9y ago
Why would that prompt them to decamp?
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  > Why would that prompt them to decamp? People tend to become politically involved (loosely defined) when desperate. Remove the source of desperation and engagement fades. Convincing people to come to a meeting or go to a rally or draft a letter to the dean or call or write to their representative gets harder when the problem goes from specific, e.g. I need X study to write my paper, to abstract.
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    But there was no source of desperation yet - there has not been a period in which researchers have not had access. (Well, technically, there was a short one at the start of last year IIRC, but Elsevier prolonged access then just as well.)
    - gkya 9y ago
      I'd guess most researchers use libraries' copies of these pricy papers. So it's mostly about tax money Elsevier forces university libraries to pay all around the world. And also independent researchers.
      - Vinnl 9y ago
        Yes, and those libraries are the ones whose access was extended free of charge.
- GunlogAlm 9y ago
  Temporarily, presumably because they now have free access? At least amongst those who simply want access in the short-term, and aren't hardcore campaigners for the cause.
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    I don't think the negotiators representing the German universities belong in that camp :)
    - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
      > I don't think the negotiators representing the German universities belong in that camp Some fraction of the people whose support is necessary for the negotiators to remain empowered are. The question is how many.
      - Vinnl 9y ago
        Of course, but if they no longer really care about open access because they got some free access for now (which I really think is the case for practically zero of them), they also probably don't care enough to actively tell the negotiators that they're withdrawing support.
teniutza 9y ago
They must also have good PR. It's not like they don't have money to hire someone good. I think it's partially a PR move. In recent years, their image has been shaken, as they have been accused of being greedy. Now, all this shaking has brought them face to face with a big "client", with a strong hand. "Hey, look, I can be nice too!"