4 ms·

An illusion. You're as attached to your digital possessions as you were to your physical ones. You just have different preferences.

pchristensen 16y ago
That's fine, you just don't need to pay for space for stuff. Space is very, very expensive monetarily and psychologically.
- scott_s 16y ago
  So is the psychological cost of never knowing where you will sleep.
  - keegangrayson 16y ago
    I'm a touring musician and it's not that bad. I like waking up and not knowing where I am. I find that when I get comfortable I become stagnant.
  - pchristensen 16y ago
    There's a big difference between the space for you (important) and the space for 200 DVDs, or 60 changes of clothes, or a set of lawn tools, or rarely used sporting equipment, or ...
    - scott_s 16y ago
      Indeed, there is, but at least one of the people profiled in the article doesn't even have a space for himself.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Space is expensive monetarily, but how is it expensive psychologically? I find _not_ having enough space to be psychologically expensive. Nothing better than going for a walk through your own house, knowing it's all yours and nobody can invade it. But hey, different people have different preferences...
  - pchristensen 16y ago
    http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html Just because space is expensive doesn't mean you should have none.
    - RexRollman 16y ago
      I love that essay.
    - hugh3 16y ago
      That's not an argument, that's a link to an essay. Besides, that essay is about "stuff", not "space". Personally I'm not a fan of having too much stuff, but I'm not sure it's so easy to have too much space. I'd have a hundred acres of forest if I could afford such a thing (anywhere convenient). But I don't want, say, a deep-fryer. If you think space is psychologically expensive, why not phrase it in your own words?
      - pchristensen 16y ago
        Stuff (in this case, physical possessions as opposed to digital) takes up space. Most people buy space so they can fill it with stuff. If you're buying space because you actually want the space, that's great! But paying for a mortgage, a storage unit, a parking space, etc is space for your stuff. And, as pg explained, stuff can be a problem.
        hugh3 16y ago
        I think most people get mortgages so they have space for their families, not space for their stuff.
notahacker 16y ago
besides which, two digital reading devices in addition to a laptop (and presumably a smartphone) isn't exactly minimalism...
- paulgb 16y ago
  It is compared to the bookshelves, CD stacks, filing cabinets, and shoeboxes full of photographs that it replaces. And that's not to mention the number of single-purpose devices each of these replaces: the smartphone is an alarm clock, watch, point-and-shoot camera, GPS, and MP3 player. The reading devices replace a printer (if you have access to a Kinkos when you really need a hard copy). The laptop replaces a TV, DVD player, and desktop computer.
  - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
    Physically yes but not in any other sense. From the sounds of things he's not reduced the number of books and albums he owns, just changed the storage medium. It also mentions that he has a backpack full of "designer clothes" which suggests that he's just as hung up on the nature of the things he does have. What's changed here is the medium but what would really be interesting is if there were a significant cultural shift but I don't see that - he still seems to be as much a consumer as he ever was.
    - paulgb 16y ago
      > he still seems to be as much a consumer as he ever was I'm not debating that, but is it necessarily a bad thing? I don't interpreting your comment to say that it is, but it raises the question. The wonder of the internet and "consumer culture" is that we now have access to the creative output of millions of people we otherwise wouldn't. As long as I can choose my level of participation, I like having it there.
      - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
        That's a big question. I have nothing against consumption per se, though I do have a suspicion that many of us spend a reasonable amount of money on things which, for one reason or another, aren't actually that important to us. Consumption isn't necessarily bad but waste is. Maybe that's an interesting point - it may be that because so much of his life is digital he wastes less though I suspect it's not that straight forward. Perhaps there is no physical waste but we shouldn't underestimate the tiny drip drip drip power consumption (in theory for eternity) for on-line services and backups. And minimalism in this sense may actually make things worse. Having shelf after shelf of physical books / records / CDs is a reminder for many how much stuff they've got that they never read or listen to. I certainly know people who download (illegally in the case I'm thinking of so the definition of consumer is questionable) more music and more films than they will ever listen to or watch and certainly more than they would ever have if they had to physically store them. Rambling now but I suspect it's not as simple as it might appear at first glance.
kellysutton 16y ago
I definitely agree with this and think it's fascinating. I feel the same attachment to my digital possessions as I do my few physical ones. The difference, however, is how much physical space each option consumes. I should also point out that I needed the iPad for my job, as I develop apps from time to time.
- derwiki 16y ago
  Do you feel like you have less to worry about though? One of the advantages of this minimalism seems to be being able to walk into your room and not being overwhelmed with everything you own. So, even if you own as much music, books, etc.. out of sight, out of mind?
  - kellysutton 16y ago
    I originally started the project because I was away at an internship and had left all of my stuff with friends back in LA. When I returned for the fall term, I couldn't remember what was in the boxes I had left. (I had about 10 or 11 boxes of stuff in total.) If I couldn't remember what it was, I figured it wasn't worth keeping around. I got rid of a bunch of trinkets and things I wasn't really using anymore. I've been happier ever since.

pchristensen 16y ago

That's fine, you just don't need to pay for space for stuff. Space is very, very expensive monetarily and psychologically.

scott_s 16y ago
So is the psychological cost of never knowing where you will sleep.
- keegangrayson 16y ago
  I'm a touring musician and it's not that bad. I like waking up and not knowing where I am. I find that when I get comfortable I become stagnant.
- pchristensen 16y ago
  There's a big difference between the space for you (important) and the space for 200 DVDs, or 60 changes of clothes, or a set of lawn tools, or rarely used sporting equipment, or ...
  - scott_s 16y ago
    Indeed, there is, but at least one of the people profiled in the article doesn't even have a space for himself.
hugh3 16y ago
Space is expensive monetarily, but how is it expensive psychologically? I find _not_ having enough space to be psychologically expensive. Nothing better than going for a walk through your own house, knowing it's all yours and nobody can invade it. But hey, different people have different preferences...
- pchristensen 16y ago
  http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html http://www.paulgraham.com/stuff.html Just because space is expensive doesn't mean you should have none.
  - RexRollman 16y ago
    I love that essay.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    That's not an argument, that's a link to an essay. Besides, that essay is about "stuff", not "space". Personally I'm not a fan of having too much stuff, but I'm not sure it's so easy to have too much space. I'd have a hundred acres of forest if I could afford such a thing (anywhere convenient). But I don't want, say, a deep-fryer. If you think space is psychologically expensive, why not phrase it in your own words?
    - pchristensen 16y ago
      Stuff (in this case, physical possessions as opposed to digital) takes up space. Most people buy space so they can fill it with stuff. If you're buying space because you actually want the space, that's great! But paying for a mortgage, a storage unit, a parking space, etc is space for your stuff. And, as pg explained, stuff can be a problem.
      - hugh3 16y ago
        I think most people get mortgages so they have space for their families, not space for their stuff.

notahacker 16y ago

besides which, two digital reading devices in addition to a laptop (and presumably a smartphone) isn't exactly minimalism...

paulgb 16y ago
It is compared to the bookshelves, CD stacks, filing cabinets, and shoeboxes full of photographs that it replaces. And that's not to mention the number of single-purpose devices each of these replaces: the smartphone is an alarm clock, watch, point-and-shoot camera, GPS, and MP3 player. The reading devices replace a printer (if you have access to a Kinkos when you really need a hard copy). The laptop replaces a TV, DVD player, and desktop computer.
- Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
  Physically yes but not in any other sense. From the sounds of things he's not reduced the number of books and albums he owns, just changed the storage medium. It also mentions that he has a backpack full of "designer clothes" which suggests that he's just as hung up on the nature of the things he does have. What's changed here is the medium but what would really be interesting is if there were a significant cultural shift but I don't see that - he still seems to be as much a consumer as he ever was.
  - paulgb 16y ago
    > he still seems to be as much a consumer as he ever was I'm not debating that, but is it necessarily a bad thing? I don't interpreting your comment to say that it is, but it raises the question. The wonder of the internet and "consumer culture" is that we now have access to the creative output of millions of people we otherwise wouldn't. As long as I can choose my level of participation, I like having it there.
    - Tyrannosaurs 16y ago
      That's a big question. I have nothing against consumption per se, though I do have a suspicion that many of us spend a reasonable amount of money on things which, for one reason or another, aren't actually that important to us. Consumption isn't necessarily bad but waste is. Maybe that's an interesting point - it may be that because so much of his life is digital he wastes less though I suspect it's not that straight forward. Perhaps there is no physical waste but we shouldn't underestimate the tiny drip drip drip power consumption (in theory for eternity) for on-line services and backups. And minimalism in this sense may actually make things worse. Having shelf after shelf of physical books / records / CDs is a reminder for many how much stuff they've got that they never read or listen to. I certainly know people who download (illegally in the case I'm thinking of so the definition of consumer is questionable) more music and more films than they will ever listen to or watch and certainly more than they would ever have if they had to physically store them. Rambling now but I suspect it's not as simple as it might appear at first glance.

kellysutton 16y ago

I definitely agree with this and think it's fascinating. I feel the same attachment to my digital possessions as I do my few physical ones. The difference, however, is how much physical space each option consumes. I should also point out that I needed the iPad for my job, as I develop apps from time to time.

derwiki 16y ago
Do you feel like you have less to worry about though? One of the advantages of this minimalism seems to be being able to walk into your room and not being overwhelmed with everything you own. So, even if you own as much music, books, etc.. out of sight, out of mind?
- kellysutton 16y ago
  I originally started the project because I was away at an internship and had left all of my stuff with friends back in LA. When I returned for the fall term, I couldn't remember what was in the boxes I had left. (I had about 10 or 11 boxes of stuff in total.) If I couldn't remember what it was, I figured it wasn't worth keeping around. I got rid of a bunch of trinkets and things I wasn't really using anymore. I've been happier ever since.