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I think this will be good in the long run. If VISA (and Mastercard) end up allowing Bitcoin affiliated payments through their platform, then merchants will end

I think this will be good in the long run. If VISA (and Mastercard) end up allowing Bitcoin affiliated payments through their platform, then merchants will end up not providing native support for crypto payments, as they can just use their current infrastructure. If we want to destroy these payment monopolies in place of a (more, but I understand not completely) decentralized system, we need to encourage merchants to just implement payments directly. edit: typical hackernews. any pro bitcoin comments result in downvotes.

joosters 9y ago
Ah, another classic "This is good for Bitcoin"
- repomies691 9y ago
  I didn't see it that way, more like advocating the development of some kind of open, permissionless payment network. Bitcoin could be it but it has ridiculous network fees, which opens the possibilities for challengers. If everything works very fluently with the traditional payment infrastructure, there is no big demand for that kind of payment network, and no incentives to develop it.
  - bringtheaction 9y ago
    The challengers are here already. For example, XRB.
    - zepolen 9y ago
      Wow I tried it and you're right RaiBlocks is a game changer. Instant transaction and zero fee? Hows the security though?
      - blueprint 9y ago
        Can you make the fact you're a shill any more obvious?
        zepolen 9y ago
        Are you kidding, last time I played with crypto the confirmations took like an hour - I didn't really bother using it any more. I don't know how XRB makes it so fast but I'm calling it right now - whoever has the fastest transaction speed will become the first global currency.
        blueprint 9y ago
        Have fun with PayPal and Visa then. Some people just don't get it.
  - kaybe 9y ago
    Is it possible to have something that does not use obscene amounts of electricity? Or would that be captured immediately by someone who can use more ressources = electricity?
empath75 9y ago
I can’t wait to wait 3 days and spend $30 in transaction fees to buy a Big Mac.
- down 9y ago
  for now, but in 2-3 years, you won't, with lighting and schnoor, etc. same as cars eg. there are no roads, are noisy, cost more than a horse, are just a fad, etc.
- s3nnyy 9y ago
  Right now I top up 10USD worth of Bitcoin with bitrefill.com. I pay ZERO fees and it is instant (due to Segwit and the Lightning network).
  - s3nnyy 9y ago
    Why the negative reaction to this?
- pmorici 9y ago
  Bitcoin Cash fixes that.
raverbashing 9y ago
You can't have it both ways I'm sure a lot of people said "this is good for bitcoin" when they launched this Looking forward to read how having long confirmation times, high fees and high volatility is good for bitcoin
- ThomPete 9y ago
  From what I understand one seriously thinks about bitcoin as a currency anymore. Think of it as gold for the digital space almost literally (it's expensive to mine, exist in limited quantity and expensive to keep secure) People keep talking about high volatility but any currency can be exposed to high volatility and there was a time when currency was that. Now we have central banks but they have their own problems with systemtic bubbles. Bitcoin will be a kind of contract ledger perhaps between countries or large organizations.
oelmekki 9y ago
I don't see this happening for bitcoin, though (or maybe for online orders, which don't need to be instant). Two years ago, I got sick of banks whose services I found of lesser and lesser quality, and tried a bitcoin/VISA debit card, just to see if it was working. The idea was this: I make a bitcoin transaction to add bitcoins in card provider wallet, and when transaction is complete, I could exchange it for fiat that I could use with my card. "when transaction is complete" is the culprint :) I needed to have fiat in the card so that payments to a cashier was instant. If you remove that step, transaction delays make it not realistic for buying stuff while outdoor, especially given current delays (but even two years ago, it wouldn't do). So, for bitcoin to work without VISA (or alike) as third party, bitcoin will first need to find a way to make transactions instant. The alternative, obviously, being to use it for purchases where transaction delay doesn't matter (like online purchases), or to use an other cryptocurrency for that.
- repomies691 9y ago
  For online payments instant payments are actually not that important requirements. The process needs to happen just fluently from customers perspective. If the merchant is dispatching physical items, he can just wait for the transaction to confirm and dispatch the items after that. The customer won't see much difference because the biggest issue is the shipping time. For online payments bitcoin works quite well. Still credit cards are often better for the consumer, because of the consumer protection (chargebacks).
  - oelmekki 9y ago
    Which is why I mentioned the distinction :)
  - doktrin 9y ago
    > For online payments bitcoin works quite well Bitcoin payments could, theoretically, work well - but that's not currently the case given the prohibitive transaction fees.
    - oelmekki 9y ago

joosters 9y ago

Ah, another classic "This is good for Bitcoin"

repomies691 9y ago
I didn't see it that way, more like advocating the development of some kind of open, permissionless payment network. Bitcoin could be it but it has ridiculous network fees, which opens the possibilities for challengers. If everything works very fluently with the traditional payment infrastructure, there is no big demand for that kind of payment network, and no incentives to develop it.
- bringtheaction 9y ago
  The challengers are here already. For example, XRB.
  - zepolen 9y ago
    Wow I tried it and you're right RaiBlocks is a game changer. Instant transaction and zero fee? Hows the security though?
    - blueprint 9y ago
      Can you make the fact you're a shill any more obvious?
      - zepolen 9y ago
        Are you kidding, last time I played with crypto the confirmations took like an hour - I didn't really bother using it any more. I don't know how XRB makes it so fast but I'm calling it right now - whoever has the fastest transaction speed will become the first global currency.
        blueprint 9y ago
        Have fun with PayPal and Visa then. Some people just don't get it.
- kaybe 9y ago
  Is it possible to have something that does not use obscene amounts of electricity? Or would that be captured immediately by someone who can use more ressources = electricity?

empath75 9y ago

I can’t wait to wait 3 days and spend $30 in transaction fees to buy a Big Mac.

down 9y ago
for now, but in 2-3 years, you won't, with lighting and schnoor, etc. same as cars eg. there are no roads, are noisy, cost more than a horse, are just a fad, etc.
s3nnyy 9y ago
Right now I top up 10USD worth of Bitcoin with bitrefill.com. I pay ZERO fees and it is instant (due to Segwit and the Lightning network).
- s3nnyy 9y ago
  Why the negative reaction to this?
pmorici 9y ago
Bitcoin Cash fixes that.

raverbashing 9y ago

You can't have it both ways I'm sure a lot of people said "this is good for bitcoin" when they launched this Looking forward to read how having long confirmation times, high fees and high volatility is good for bitcoin

ThomPete 9y ago
From what I understand one seriously thinks about bitcoin as a currency anymore. Think of it as gold for the digital space almost literally (it's expensive to mine, exist in limited quantity and expensive to keep secure) People keep talking about high volatility but any currency can be exposed to high volatility and there was a time when currency was that. Now we have central banks but they have their own problems with systemtic bubbles. Bitcoin will be a kind of contract ledger perhaps between countries or large organizations.

oelmekki 9y ago

I don't see this happening for bitcoin, though (or maybe for online orders, which don't need to be instant). Two years ago, I got sick of banks whose services I found of lesser and lesser quality, and tried a bitcoin/VISA debit card, just to see if it was working. The idea was this: I make a bitcoin transaction to add bitcoins in card provider wallet, and when transaction is complete, I could exchange it for fiat that I could use with my card. "when transaction is complete" is the culprint :) I needed to have fiat in the card so that payments to a cashier was instant. If you remove that step, transaction delays make it not realistic for buying stuff while outdoor, especially given current delays (but even two years ago, it wouldn't do). So, for bitcoin to work without VISA (or alike) as third party, bitcoin will first need to find a way to make transactions instant. The alternative, obviously, being to use it for purchases where transaction delay doesn't matter (like online purchases), or to use an other cryptocurrency for that.

repomies691 9y ago
For online payments instant payments are actually not that important requirements. The process needs to happen just fluently from customers perspective. If the merchant is dispatching physical items, he can just wait for the transaction to confirm and dispatch the items after that. The customer won't see much difference because the biggest issue is the shipping time. For online payments bitcoin works quite well. Still credit cards are often better for the consumer, because of the consumer protection (chargebacks).
- oelmekki 9y ago
  Which is why I mentioned the distinction :)
- doktrin 9y ago
  > For online payments bitcoin works quite well Bitcoin payments could, theoretically, work well - but that's not currently the case given the prohibitive transaction fees.
  - oelmekki 9y ago