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I think automatic systems like Content ID should be illegal. Plus I doubt a robot can consider things like fair use. Well maybe they could do some machine learn

by Keverw 9y ago

I think automatic systems like Content ID should be illegal. Plus I doubt a robot can consider things like fair use. Well maybe they could do some machine learning of past cases where videos were complained about but ended up being fair use... I think a real human should have to spend all day finding content and manually doing the work. Kinda like how some states have banned red light cams. Technology is not perfect. I heard of those cams going off even when it's legal to turn on right. A real human swearing under penalty of perjury or giving sworn testimony seems perfect for accountability. At least the money is held until you do a dispute now with Youtube. I know if you license royalty free music - the system will even flag it. I know someone personally who had that problem. I guess the systems aren't linked so no idea you had a license but annoying. So say you made a video for a client and uploaded it, and embedded to their website. Even though you didn't monetize it, your client website now has ads for their competitor as they'll allow the video to stay up but with ads where the money goes to whoever claimed it! I guess the way to protect that is to upload as unpublished or unlisted then dispute it before publishing it when you already purchased a license.

justinmoh 9y ago
Apparently this is the development of Artificial Intelligence. From a corporate point of view, one big fix cost is obviously better than ever growing (now rather small) variable cost. Also, google is leading in this AI sector. Your feedback will help them to improve. The more hassle they introduce, the more you react upon it, the faster it can learn.
krapp 9y ago
I suspect Youtube's Content ID and flagging system is the way it is to placate companies like Disney and Viacom who couldn't care less about fair use, but do like arbitrary power.
flukus 9y ago
It shouldn't be illegal, google can do what the want on their hardware. The problem is that everyone has centralized to googles hardware, and issues like this will happen for as long as that remains unchanged. We need a path back to the distributed web where people upload videos to a server they own and control. Instead of IoT juicers we need "video broadcasting in a box" solutions.
- Keverw 9y ago
  Yeah... It seems like some search engine for some decentralized video might work. Some search engine indexing, videos hosted on independent sites(regular http), favorites/playlists can be stored in something like Dropbox privately or shared. Probably could be just a video tag with additional elements and builtin functionality. Some advertising spec too... Sites can either implement third party ads or host their own ads for example. So instead of being told your content isn't advertiser friendly. You could run your own ad server that's in the video metadata or use a external one agreeing to their terms for video content. So total freedom to go out and get your own advertisers or signup for a service and plugin a URL and they get to handle that part. So say you just want to make videos, not doing controversial or political stuff and not really into being a sales person just use this ad network... or maybe you are a very political channel, point to this other ad network that targets that audience. Maybe you are a non-profit, run your own ad server with your own in-house fundraising ads. Not sure how you'd go about handling sensitive stuff some people might not want to see, maybe at the search engine part using AI/machine learning but also allow sites to indicate certain things within the spec itself... Decentralizing the search part even better. But ideally you'd have a consistent UI sorta like YouTube but all content is fetched from servers like a web browser, you'd have subscriptions, sorta like RSS, etc... But I guess subscribers counts and commenting/liking would need to be apart of it too. Maybe use somthing like OpenID. but sites that want to host videos apart of it would provide certain metadata and some callback urls to post to for like comments, getting commentings, likes, etc. Just thinking out loud... One of the benefits of YouTube is discovery and organizing your watch later, subscribers, etc. So some sort of formal spec for a video app would make sense. Searching random sites, signup and comment and have like 10 sites to check for new videos would get annoying.
  - progval 9y ago
    You may be interested in PeerTube: https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube
Silhouette 9y ago
I think a real human should have to spend all day finding content and manually doing the work. Writing as someone who has been that human, in a startup creating original content that someone was repeatedly ripping and uploading to YouTube after signing up with different credentials to bypass the paywall, unfortunately your approach doesn't work very well either. It's true that excessively aggressive takedowns result in YouTube not hosting some legitimate content. But it's also true that sites like YouTube allow an infringement to reach thousands or millions of people in a very short space of time, potentially completely undermining the value of the original work. If you're a Hollywood studio or big record label, you can factor piracy into the cost of doing business, and you can take steps to make it less attractive or more trouble than it's worth. If you're a small independent content creator, the economics and practicalities are entirely different. Ultimately, once content is shared the genie is out of the bottle, while relatively little content is so time-sensitive that you can't allow for challenging it and keeping it offline while the dispute is resolved, so requiring major hosts to take down by default or lose their safe harbour protections isn't unreasonable. If someone doesn't like that, they're free to host the content on their own systems instead, but such a site is unlikely to have the resources to cause the same scale of damage as a major video hosting service like YouTube or Vimeo, and if it does then it's going to be worthwhile to bring a real copyright infringement action against the site owner, who in turn is likely to be identifiable.
- alphaalpha101 9y ago
  >Writing as someone who has been that human, in a startup creating original content that someone was repeatedly ripping and uploading to YouTube after signing up with different credentials to bypass the paywall, unfortunately your approach doesn't work very well either. Uh, yes it does. If someone is repeatedly ripping and uploading to YouTube, that's what the court system is for.
specialist 9y ago
I'm still stuck on the notion that the accused is innocent until proven guilty. I know, I know, that makes me a pinko commie liberal Freedom Markets™ hating fruitcake. A common theme during this late stage capitalism is the burden of proof being placed on the weaker party in all these transactions, in other words, we're presumed guilty until we can prove our innocence.

by Keverw 9y ago

justinmoh 9y ago

Apparently this is the development of Artificial Intelligence. From a corporate point of view, one big fix cost is obviously better than ever growing (now rather small) variable cost. Also, google is leading in this AI sector. Your feedback will help them to improve. The more hassle they introduce, the more you react upon it, the faster it can learn.

krapp 9y ago

I suspect Youtube's Content ID and flagging system is the way it is to placate companies like Disney and Viacom who couldn't care less about fair use, but do like arbitrary power.

flukus 9y ago

It shouldn't be illegal, google can do what the want on their hardware. The problem is that everyone has centralized to googles hardware, and issues like this will happen for as long as that remains unchanged. We need a path back to the distributed web where people upload videos to a server they own and control. Instead of IoT juicers we need "video broadcasting in a box" solutions.

Keverw 9y ago
Yeah... It seems like some search engine for some decentralized video might work. Some search engine indexing, videos hosted on independent sites(regular http), favorites/playlists can be stored in something like Dropbox privately or shared. Probably could be just a video tag with additional elements and builtin functionality. Some advertising spec too... Sites can either implement third party ads or host their own ads for example. So instead of being told your content isn't advertiser friendly. You could run your own ad server that's in the video metadata or use a external one agreeing to their terms for video content. So total freedom to go out and get your own advertisers or signup for a service and plugin a URL and they get to handle that part. So say you just want to make videos, not doing controversial or political stuff and not really into being a sales person just use this ad network... or maybe you are a very political channel, point to this other ad network that targets that audience. Maybe you are a non-profit, run your own ad server with your own in-house fundraising ads. Not sure how you'd go about handling sensitive stuff some people might not want to see, maybe at the search engine part using AI/machine learning but also allow sites to indicate certain things within the spec itself... Decentralizing the search part even better. But ideally you'd have a consistent UI sorta like YouTube but all content is fetched from servers like a web browser, you'd have subscriptions, sorta like RSS, etc... But I guess subscribers counts and commenting/liking would need to be apart of it too. Maybe use somthing like OpenID. but sites that want to host videos apart of it would provide certain metadata and some callback urls to post to for like comments, getting commentings, likes, etc. Just thinking out loud... One of the benefits of YouTube is discovery and organizing your watch later, subscribers, etc. So some sort of formal spec for a video app would make sense. Searching random sites, signup and comment and have like 10 sites to check for new videos would get annoying.
- progval 9y ago
  You may be interested in PeerTube: https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube

Silhouette 9y ago

I think a real human should have to spend all day finding content and manually doing the work. Writing as someone who has been that human, in a startup creating original content that someone was repeatedly ripping and uploading to YouTube after signing up with different credentials to bypass the paywall, unfortunately your approach doesn't work very well either. It's true that excessively aggressive takedowns result in YouTube not hosting some legitimate content. But it's also true that sites like YouTube allow an infringement to reach thousands or millions of people in a very short space of time, potentially completely undermining the value of the original work. If you're a Hollywood studio or big record label, you can factor piracy into the cost of doing business, and you can take steps to make it less attractive or more trouble than it's worth. If you're a small independent content creator, the economics and practicalities are entirely different. Ultimately, once content is shared the genie is out of the bottle, while relatively little content is so time-sensitive that you can't allow for challenging it and keeping it offline while the dispute is resolved, so requiring major hosts to take down by default or lose their safe harbour protections isn't unreasonable. If someone doesn't like that, they're free to host the content on their own systems instead, but such a site is unlikely to have the resources to cause the same scale of damage as a major video hosting service like YouTube or Vimeo, and if it does then it's going to be worthwhile to bring a real copyright infringement action against the site owner, who in turn is likely to be identifiable.

alphaalpha101 9y ago
>Writing as someone who has been that human, in a startup creating original content that someone was repeatedly ripping and uploading to YouTube after signing up with different credentials to bypass the paywall, unfortunately your approach doesn't work very well either. Uh, yes it does. If someone is repeatedly ripping and uploading to YouTube, that's what the court system is for.

specialist 9y ago

I'm still stuck on the notion that the accused is innocent until proven guilty. I know, I know, that makes me a pinko commie liberal Freedom Markets™ hating fruitcake. A common theme during this late stage capitalism is the burden of proof being placed on the weaker party in all these transactions, in other words, we're presumed guilty until we can prove our innocence.