6 ms·

1. Assemble a botnet 2. Automatically download and reupload popular videos, with extremely subtle modifications. 3. File automated takedown notices against ea

by cwkoss 9y ago

1. Assemble a botnet 2. Automatically download and reupload popular videos, with extremely subtle modifications. 3. File automated takedown notices against each copied (popular) video 4. Destroy youtube's ad ecosystem for cheap

tritium 9y ago
5. Create an atmosphere of fog in the DMCA dispute system, slowing down operations and reducing the effectiveness of automation efforts
- QAPereo 9y ago
  6. Package this in such a way that anyone can deploy it, making it eternal and diffuse. Otherwise it’s just going to be one or two people with the feds eating them alive to “make a point” about law and order.
zitterbewegung 9y ago
Or, use an adversarial DNN to transform videos into ones that will get copyright claims. Extra points if you figure out to how to have it using reinforcement learning to improve itself.
- myhf 9y ago
  Demonstrating that the system is broken is not an effective strategy. It is impossible to get someone to understand a fact when their salary depends on not understanding it.
  - Spivak 9y ago
    That's like saying that grocery stores are broken because you can just print out bar codes and use them at the self-checkout. Stores have enough security for their needs and balance it with customer convenience. I don't think even Google would claim that their system is perfect, only that it's currently good enough to stave off ravenous lawyers and keep them from losing safe harbor.
    - alphaalpha101 9y ago
      >keep them from losing safe harbor They can't both censor the platform and claim that they're not responsible for its content, surely.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - derefr 9y ago
    The point isn't demonstrating anything; the point is making continuing to run the system as-is untenable. If every large corporate publisher on YouTube is suddenly having takedown claims filed against them, the system isn't going to stay the same for long.
    - ric2b 9y ago
      > If every large corporate publisher on YouTube is suddenly having takedown claims filed against them, the system isn't going to stay the same for long. That's wishful thinking, they'll just be whitelisted.
    - Filligree 9y ago
      I suppose not, but what do you expect will happen instead? There's a good chance the answer will be "YouTube shuts down", and while that could be a good thing, you'd better have a replacement ready for deployment. Preferably something open source and distributed.
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  Umm I wasn’t really being serious about this at first but due to overwhelming response I might try this.
- cwkoss 9y ago
  Wouldn't that just result in the videos being taken down/demonetized? Not sure how this would harm youtube, wouldn't you just end up silencing yourself? Baiting fraudulent DMCA claims and then countersuing for lost revenue COULD work, but would likely require more legal fees than would be 'profitable'.
  - zitterbewegung 9y ago
    Making one copyright claims on youtube will basically just move the revenue of the ads to the copyright holder. If you are able to trigger this to three separate claim holders you can actually jam the system into not paying out or any monetization. I might be explaining this badly so if I am mixexplaining this but Jim Sterling does this.
flavio81 9y ago
2.1 embed Rick Astley "never gonna give you up" within the video.
- ronilan 9y ago
  That’s already been done. See here: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
  - nasredin 9y ago
    Uh uh. Nope. Not gonna fool me this time! IIRC I have only been Rick Rolled 2 or 3 times. You had to have Navy SEAL level of discipline during that year or two.
    - mar77i 9y ago
      ...or be trained in gorilla warfare, so that it's just another (non-click) target to you.
      - kaybe 9y ago
        Great, now I'm imagining some sort of Planet of the Apes crossover..
        nasredin 9y ago
        For the people who hadn't had their coffee yet: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta?full=1 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta?full=1
  - notamy 9y ago
    > dQw4 Nope, not falling for that one.
    - TeMPOraL 9y ago
      Funny, same reaction, but I memorized XcQ :).
pshc 9y ago
I would hope the older and more popular original video would ‘win’ in that scenario
- bichiliad 9y ago
  True story: on soundcloud, I had a private track that I later (months) released on a label. Shortly after that label published the track, soundcloud reached out to me to say that I had illegally-uploaded content. I told them I owned the rights to the song and they confirmed this with the label, but it was still a weird experience.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
    > soundcloud reached out to me to say that I had illegally-uploaded content. I told them I owned the rights to the song and they confirmed this with the label That sounds exactly like how the system should work.
    - vidarh 9y ago
      Except, perhaps, it'd be nice if they asked politely if he had permission rather than claim he didn't.
ubernostrum 9y ago
5. Find out it doesn't work. YouTube's enforcement system is not set up to treat every actor in it equally. It's set up to favor big rightsholders like record labels at the expense of everyone else. So your attempt to get all those videos demonetized, or get copyright "strikes" on the big labels' accounts, isn't going to succeed. Notices filed against those accounts probably go into a black hole (and you have no DMCA remedy, because YouTube doesn't use the DMCA system, requires you to use that system as part of its terms of service, and so isn't obligated to act DMCA-style on complaints filed through its separate non-DMCA system).
- rmc 9y ago
  > YouTube doesn't use the DMCA system Are you sure? Wouldn't they then lose the "safe habour" protection from the DMCA, and then be more liable? I know they can, and do, go beyond the DMCA, and take down things more often. But I thought they would still want to keep the benefits (for them) of the DMCA
  - ubernostrum 9y ago
    YouTube will react appropriately to a DMCA notice if you send them one. That's all they have to do to keep their safe harbor. Anyone can go look up their registered agent and do it. But YouTube's own easy-to-use automated enforcement system is very different from the DMCA, and almost certainly will ignore or at least massively de-prioritize notices-within-that-system-which-are-not-DMCA-notices against a major company. So if you felt you had a real case you'd probably have to actually send a DMCA notice, which would just result in automatic counter-notice and YouTube saying "well, we followed the rules, if you want more to happen you have to go sue that gigantic company all by yourself".
    - rmc 9y ago
      OK, that's what I thought. I thought the DMCA required something to be down for a certain amount of days (1? 3?), like you cannot just auto put it back up, right?

by cwkoss 9y ago

tritium 9y ago

5. Create an atmosphere of fog in the DMCA dispute system, slowing down operations and reducing the effectiveness of automation efforts

QAPereo 9y ago
6. Package this in such a way that anyone can deploy it, making it eternal and diffuse. Otherwise it’s just going to be one or two people with the feds eating them alive to “make a point” about law and order.

zitterbewegung 9y ago

Or, use an adversarial DNN to transform videos into ones that will get copyright claims. Extra points if you figure out to how to have it using reinforcement learning to improve itself.

myhf 9y ago
Demonstrating that the system is broken is not an effective strategy. It is impossible to get someone to understand a fact when their salary depends on not understanding it.
- Spivak 9y ago
  That's like saying that grocery stores are broken because you can just print out bar codes and use them at the self-checkout. Stores have enough security for their needs and balance it with customer convenience. I don't think even Google would claim that their system is perfect, only that it's currently good enough to stave off ravenous lawyers and keep them from losing safe harbor.
  - alphaalpha101 9y ago
    >keep them from losing safe harbor They can't both censor the platform and claim that they're not responsible for its content, surely.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- derefr 9y ago
  The point isn't demonstrating anything; the point is making continuing to run the system as-is untenable. If every large corporate publisher on YouTube is suddenly having takedown claims filed against them, the system isn't going to stay the same for long.
  - ric2b 9y ago
    > If every large corporate publisher on YouTube is suddenly having takedown claims filed against them, the system isn't going to stay the same for long. That's wishful thinking, they'll just be whitelisted.
  - Filligree 9y ago
    I suppose not, but what do you expect will happen instead? There's a good chance the answer will be "YouTube shuts down", and while that could be a good thing, you'd better have a replacement ready for deployment. Preferably something open source and distributed.
zitterbewegung 9y ago
Umm I wasn’t really being serious about this at first but due to overwhelming response I might try this.
cwkoss 9y ago
Wouldn't that just result in the videos being taken down/demonetized? Not sure how this would harm youtube, wouldn't you just end up silencing yourself? Baiting fraudulent DMCA claims and then countersuing for lost revenue COULD work, but would likely require more legal fees than would be 'profitable'.
- zitterbewegung 9y ago
  Making one copyright claims on youtube will basically just move the revenue of the ads to the copyright holder. If you are able to trigger this to three separate claim holders you can actually jam the system into not paying out or any monetization. I might be explaining this badly so if I am mixexplaining this but Jim Sterling does this.

flavio81 9y ago

2.1 embed Rick Astley "never gonna give you up" within the video.

ronilan 9y ago
That’s already been done. See here: https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ
- nasredin 9y ago
  Uh uh. Nope. Not gonna fool me this time! IIRC I have only been Rick Rolled 2 or 3 times. You had to have Navy SEAL level of discipline during that year or two.
  - mar77i 9y ago
    ...or be trained in gorilla warfare, so that it's just another (non-click) target to you.
    - kaybe 9y ago
      Great, now I'm imagining some sort of Planet of the Apes crossover..
      - nasredin 9y ago
        For the people who hadn't had their coffee yet: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta?full=1 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta?full=1
- notamy 9y ago
  > dQw4 Nope, not falling for that one.
  - TeMPOraL 9y ago
    Funny, same reaction, but I memorized XcQ :).

pshc 9y ago

I would hope the older and more popular original video would ‘win’ in that scenario

bichiliad 9y ago
True story: on soundcloud, I had a private track that I later (months) released on a label. Shortly after that label published the track, soundcloud reached out to me to say that I had illegally-uploaded content. I told them I owned the rights to the song and they confirmed this with the label, but it was still a weird experience.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  > soundcloud reached out to me to say that I had illegally-uploaded content. I told them I owned the rights to the song and they confirmed this with the label That sounds exactly like how the system should work.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    Except, perhaps, it'd be nice if they asked politely if he had permission rather than claim he didn't.

ubernostrum 9y ago

5. Find out it doesn't work. YouTube's enforcement system is not set up to treat every actor in it equally. It's set up to favor big rightsholders like record labels at the expense of everyone else. So your attempt to get all those videos demonetized, or get copyright "strikes" on the big labels' accounts, isn't going to succeed. Notices filed against those accounts probably go into a black hole (and you have no DMCA remedy, because YouTube doesn't use the DMCA system, requires you to use that system as part of its terms of service, and so isn't obligated to act DMCA-style on complaints filed through its separate non-DMCA system).

rmc 9y ago
> YouTube doesn't use the DMCA system Are you sure? Wouldn't they then lose the "safe habour" protection from the DMCA, and then be more liable? I know they can, and do, go beyond the DMCA, and take down things more often. But I thought they would still want to keep the benefits (for them) of the DMCA
- ubernostrum 9y ago
  YouTube will react appropriately to a DMCA notice if you send them one. That's all they have to do to keep their safe harbor. Anyone can go look up their registered agent and do it. But YouTube's own easy-to-use automated enforcement system is very different from the DMCA, and almost certainly will ignore or at least massively de-prioritize notices-within-that-system-which-are-not-DMCA-notices against a major company. So if you felt you had a real case you'd probably have to actually send a DMCA notice, which would just result in automatic counter-notice and YouTube saying "well, we followed the rules, if you want more to happen you have to go sue that gigantic company all by yourself".
  - rmc 9y ago
    OK, that's what I thought. I thought the DMCA required something to be down for a certain amount of days (1? 3?), like you cannot just auto put it back up, right?