4 ms·

Gartner: Windows is collapsing

7 points by foemmel 19y ago

gscott 19y ago
Usually every upgrade of Windows makes sense. Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 to Windows 98 were logical but then Windows ME didn't make any sense as it didn't improve much upon 98. Windows XP made sense as it was a real improvement but the move from Windows XP to Vista didn't gain any real benefits to the end user and since you are only as good as your last product, MS is getting a great deal of blowback. Windows Vista to "Windows 7" may make sense if Microsoft is rewriting the core to handle legacy apps differently then installing 2 gigabytes of unneeded files. If they scrap out the high level stuff that manages DRM, scrape off the extra crud they added, they will be fine again and Vista will be in the past.
morbidkk 19y ago
I am convert now; using ubuntu linux full time on laptop & desktop both.(I just posted the same here http://ketankhairnar.blogspot.com http://ketankhairnar.blogspot.com ) Actually linux still has to go long way and programmers have to contribute more not only by improving the desktop experience(which distros like fedora/debian are doing); but also by showcasing alternative approaches like ubuntu/fedora and its usability to other people who are lost into windows world. I know this shift is happening faster than ever before. I may not do significant contrubution on development part but surely would make people around me aware of alternative (which in turn would make lot of people happy about hardware/cost and performance )
- Tichy 19y ago
  Why do you think it still has a long way to go? It works fine for me (also Ubuntu) - more than fine actually. So fine that I don't want to use anything else atm. Sure, there were some rough spots in the beginning (solve them once and you are done), but every operating system has them. Overall Ubuntu seems more usable than the alternatives to me (unless you can wrap your mind around the Apple way of thinking maybe - I can't). Everybody is laughing, but I'll say it again: the single coolest move Microsoft could make would be to switch over to Linux. They could provide a fancy theme (they are actually reasonably good with user interfaces, having a research lab and all), port their applications to Linux, and everybody would be happy. I don't think Windows itself is the big moneymaker, anyway. Rather, I suspect they tend to pay people for using it, so they could save money by moving away from it.
  - dhimes 19y ago
    Linux is difficult with new hardware. I have a low-end HP that I've loaded with Fedora 8, and am still (months later) unable to use the wifi or my new (low end) epson printer. Now, before I get lectured on the fact that it's not the fault of Linux (drivers are proprietary), it is nevertheless the problem of Linux. I love to fool around with that stuff, but I simply don't have time to learn and hack my own solution. And there is no way that someone like my wife would even consider it. With Linux, you really have to pay attention. Most people don't want to do that with their computers any more than they do with their cars.
    - Tichy 19y ago
      OK, I forgot about that, because I bought my hardware accordingly. You can't run OS X on a normal PC either, and nobody considers it a dealbreaker ;-) If you buy a new computer, it should be possible to buy it with Linux drivers (Dell does it).
      - cturner 19y ago
        "You can't run OS X on a normal PC either, and nobody considers it a dealbreaker" Still - it's easy to buy hardware in which you can have confidence that OSX will work seamlessly. Not so with Ubuntu. Ubuntu is my preferred OS and I went through this recently while getting a new laptop. Part of the problem is that people in the Linux world are so accustomed to having to do tweaks to get hardware working (and sneering at people like me who can't be bothered) that there's always a blur between hardware that "works with ubuntu" in the sense that you turn it on and get all functionality; or "works with ubuntu" in the sense that you can install it, invest lots of energy tweaking in order to get some functionality kind of working until you do the next major kernel upgrade. Another example of Ubuntu not doing so well - wireless networking. The UI doesn't make sense, and is unhelpful when you can't get a connection. These are complete deal-breakers in terms of Ubuntu as a consumer OS.
        Tichy 19y ago
        I agree that it is a bit difficult to find out what hardware works and what doesn't. I have a working printer and a working scanner, though, and I didn't do much tweaking. The tweaking only applies if you have some weird hardware that you want to get running no matter what. But remember the "stuff" discussion - it really is not very expensive anymore to buy a scanner or a printer that works with Linux, so maybe that is an easier route. Wireless Networking: not sure what you mean, it works flawless for me.
mynameishere 19y ago
I've still never used a vista machine. MSFT should probably take a cue from apple and make more-or-less meaningless updates to the OS and call it a new version. Charge 50 bucks for an upgrade, but do them every year like clockwork. You have de facto subscription software at that point.

7 points by foemmel 19y ago

Usually every upgrade of Windows makes sense. Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 to Windows 98 were logical but then Windows ME didn't make any sense as it didn't improve much upon 98. Windows XP made sense as it was a real improvement but the move from Windows XP to Vista didn't gain any real benefits to the end user and since you are only as good as your last product, MS is getting a great deal of blowback. Windows Vista to "Windows 7" may make sense if Microsoft is rewriting the core to handle legacy apps differently then installing 2 gigabytes of unneeded files. If they scrap out the high level stuff that manages DRM, scrape off the extra crud they added, they will be fine again and Vista will be in the past.

morbidkk 19y ago

I am convert now; using ubuntu linux full time on laptop & desktop both.(I just posted the same here http://ketankhairnar.blogspot.com http://ketankhairnar.blogspot.com ) Actually linux still has to go long way and programmers have to contribute more not only by improving the desktop experience(which distros like fedora/debian are doing); but also by showcasing alternative approaches like ubuntu/fedora and its usability to other people who are lost into windows world. I know this shift is happening faster than ever before. I may not do significant contrubution on development part but surely would make people around me aware of alternative (which in turn would make lot of people happy about hardware/cost and performance )

Tichy 19y ago
Why do you think it still has a long way to go? It works fine for me (also Ubuntu) - more than fine actually. So fine that I don't want to use anything else atm. Sure, there were some rough spots in the beginning (solve them once and you are done), but every operating system has them. Overall Ubuntu seems more usable than the alternatives to me (unless you can wrap your mind around the Apple way of thinking maybe - I can't). Everybody is laughing, but I'll say it again: the single coolest move Microsoft could make would be to switch over to Linux. They could provide a fancy theme (they are actually reasonably good with user interfaces, having a research lab and all), port their applications to Linux, and everybody would be happy. I don't think Windows itself is the big moneymaker, anyway. Rather, I suspect they tend to pay people for using it, so they could save money by moving away from it.
- dhimes 19y ago
  Linux is difficult with new hardware. I have a low-end HP that I've loaded with Fedora 8, and am still (months later) unable to use the wifi or my new (low end) epson printer. Now, before I get lectured on the fact that it's not the fault of Linux (drivers are proprietary), it is nevertheless the problem of Linux. I love to fool around with that stuff, but I simply don't have time to learn and hack my own solution. And there is no way that someone like my wife would even consider it. With Linux, you really have to pay attention. Most people don't want to do that with their computers any more than they do with their cars.
  - Tichy 19y ago
    OK, I forgot about that, because I bought my hardware accordingly. You can't run OS X on a normal PC either, and nobody considers it a dealbreaker ;-) If you buy a new computer, it should be possible to buy it with Linux drivers (Dell does it).
    - cturner 19y ago
      "You can't run OS X on a normal PC either, and nobody considers it a dealbreaker" Still - it's easy to buy hardware in which you can have confidence that OSX will work seamlessly. Not so with Ubuntu. Ubuntu is my preferred OS and I went through this recently while getting a new laptop. Part of the problem is that people in the Linux world are so accustomed to having to do tweaks to get hardware working (and sneering at people like me who can't be bothered) that there's always a blur between hardware that "works with ubuntu" in the sense that you turn it on and get all functionality; or "works with ubuntu" in the sense that you can install it, invest lots of energy tweaking in order to get some functionality kind of working until you do the next major kernel upgrade. Another example of Ubuntu not doing so well - wireless networking. The UI doesn't make sense, and is unhelpful when you can't get a connection. These are complete deal-breakers in terms of Ubuntu as a consumer OS.
      - Tichy 19y ago
        I agree that it is a bit difficult to find out what hardware works and what doesn't. I have a working printer and a working scanner, though, and I didn't do much tweaking. The tweaking only applies if you have some weird hardware that you want to get running no matter what. But remember the "stuff" discussion - it really is not very expensive anymore to buy a scanner or a printer that works with Linux, so maybe that is an easier route. Wireless Networking: not sure what you mean, it works flawless for me.

mynameishere 19y ago

I've still never used a vista machine. MSFT should probably take a cue from apple and make more-or-less meaningless updates to the OS and call it a new version. Charge 50 bucks for an upgrade, but do them every year like clockwork. You have de facto subscription software at that point.