>If you would have used Jenkins pipelines Nice, way to start off with an ad hominem attack. Yes I'm lying to you about having used pipelines. That's what I do,

>If you would have used Jenkins pipelines Nice, way to start off with an ad hominem attack. Yes I'm lying to you about having used pipelines. That's what I do, I go on hacker news and lie about what I do, especially jenkins, to throw people off the scent. Seriously... if people dont know that pipelines are easily debuggable, that's a problem with the documentation, not with the person. It's also not a reason to attack people. I have used jenkins pipelines. However I didnt use it from scratch so no, I couldn't do what you said due to all of the other issues. My point is that it does let you hang yourself, I prefer the config based systems as it's harder to hang yourself. Your NodeJs anology is more apt but who cares you got the point. This is a discussion not a literature critique. A dev framework to me is the type of stuff you've built up around a typical compile of a given "stack". For instance, doing ruby on rails, you're likely to have a bunch of build tooling you've built up to make that easier. I would prefer to distribute that stuff more generically and unrelated to jenkins vs some other build system, as opposed to building it all into jenkins. As for mutating workers... you seem to be under the mistaken notion that I'm discussing the one thing you are discussing. But in general, if you have a turing complete language with complete system access like you do in the groovy, you can do anything and anything isn't always a great idea. I like the config based systems as it doesn't allow you to do anything, it allows you to do things we've deemed as good for building software. Jenkins boxes end up being shared resources in a large company so it's very difficult to audit what everyone is doing and side effects they are causing. >Fail to see how that vague statement supports your argument. Ok >You can reuse the groovy code you write, which means you actually get more reuse. You can but most people don't know how to or dont. It's a break from your typical dev loop and it's yet another framework to learn. I don't think it's effective unless you dive in and most people don't dive in. So to me it's a bad model. This is opinion.