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Look. The posts talking from experience about naltrexone and therapy are good...But let's not mislead people. AA has been incredibly successful over the years.

Look. The posts talking from experience about naltrexone and therapy are good...But let's not mislead people. AA has been incredibly successful over the years. Yes, it needs to be done in conjunction with therapy. Yes, psycho-pharma can help in massive ways. Those are things that anyone trying to get sober should also look at. AA doesn't work for all personality types. But it's far too fashionable for armchair scientists on the internet to shit on something that has helped more people than you can possibly imagine. Just because you are a smart person and you get all the jokes in Rick and Morty doesn't mean that you are the all singing all dancing voice of dispassionate inquiry. There are people that need to know that help if available to them and that it works. Your opinions on this and most other subjects are useless, but in this case it might stop someone from getting help. If you think you have a problem, please talk to a doctor or find an AA chapter. They will help you.

stochastic_monk 9y ago
Absolutely. (And I say this as someone without a dog in th I want to add to the above. It may not help everyone, but it's helped a lot of people with a lot more than just stopping the addiction. I'm not part of NA or any 12-step fellowship, but I have colleagues and close friends I deeply respect who give credit to '*A' for showing them how to make for themselves better, happier, more fulfilling lives than they could have without them. Perhaps it's not the best system for everyone, but the core elements of meditation, self-accountability and rigorous honesty have helped my life, even as an outsider.
astura 9y ago
AA has not been "incredibly successful" over the years, that's just factually incorrect. AA fails for the vast majority of people who try it. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/2/16181734/12-steps-aa-na-studies https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/2/16181734/12... >Lance Dodes, a retired psychiatry professor from Harvard Medical School, looked at Alcoholics Anonymous’s retention rates along with studies on sobriety and rates of active involvement (attending meetings regularly and working the program) among AA members. Based on these data, he put AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent. That is just a rough estimate, but it’s the most precise one I’ve been able to find. A big reason why people criticized AA/12-steps is because it is not evidence based and, frankly, some of it teachings are factually incorrect. And the biggest problem with AA is stated in TFA: "rigid interpretations of the 12 steps can even lead people to reject treatments or approaches that work for some people." Expecting a treatment to be evidence based isn't being "an armchair scientist." We should absolutely demand evidence based treatment!! AA is really just a support group/fellowship. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not a medical treatment so let's not keep pretending it is. I think this quote from TFA is spot on: "...one of the big non-spiritual reasons that 12-step treatment and AA work for some people: They help foster changes in a person’s social network." https://psmag.com/.amp/social-justice/75-years-alcoholics-anonymous-time-admit-problem-74268 https://psmag.com/.amp/social-justice/75-years-alcoholics-an... >In any other area of medicine, if your doctor told you that the cure for your disease involved surrendering to a “higher power,” praying to have your “defects of character” lifted, and accepting your “powerlessness,” as outlined in the original 12 steps, you’d probably seek a second opinion.
slfnflctd 9y ago
> AA doesn't work for all personality types Confession time: Hi, my name is [redacted] and I'm an alcoholic who tried AA a couple times and spent a few years shitting on it after that. Looking back, most of this was due to the heavy emphasis on Christianity within the groups I attended, and I have since learned it doesn't occur in all areas. My current approach is harm reduction, then sensible moderation-- I have gradually brought my drinking down to 3-4 drinks per day after a peak at 20 or so a while back. My ultimate goal is an average of 2 per day or less. I am not fully confident I will succeed, but continuing to try is the lifestyle change I am hanging on to. I got to this point by focusing on the things I wanted that alcohol was preventing, along with getting better exercise, nutrition and sleep. I don't think my approach would work for everyone. It wouldn't have even worked for me a few years ago. As others have pointed out here, this is an extremely complex issue with lots of ever-changing variables. AA is a stopgap. It is the most widely available & accessible program, available nearly everywhere, and it's free. For some people, in some groups, it is far better than nothing. For others in other groups, it may be worse than nothing. Regardless, I'm convinced it saved the life of a dear friend of mine and I cannot casually dismiss it any longer. If you suspect you are an addict, all I can tell you is that any time you feel the tiniest spark of inclination to do something about it, chase that. Try different things until something seems to start working, then stick with it for a while. There is a good chance you'll eventually find a way out-- studies have reported varying numbers, but it appears that at least 1/3 of people in this predicament do. The important thing is to destroy that sense of being resigned to your fate, and to value whatever you've ever loved in life enough to act. You absolutely can have a brain that works better and behaves more like you want it to, and and this affects everything you experience.

stochastic_monk 9y ago

Absolutely. (And I say this as someone without a dog in th I want to add to the above. It may not help everyone, but it's helped a lot of people with a lot more than just stopping the addiction. I'm not part of NA or any 12-step fellowship, but I have colleagues and close friends I deeply respect who give credit to '*A' for showing them how to make for themselves better, happier, more fulfilling lives than they could have without them. Perhaps it's not the best system for everyone, but the core elements of meditation, self-accountability and rigorous honesty have helped my life, even as an outsider.

astura 9y ago

AA has not been "incredibly successful" over the years, that's just factually incorrect. AA fails for the vast majority of people who try it. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/2/16181734/12-steps-aa-na-studies https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/1/2/16181734/12... >Lance Dodes, a retired psychiatry professor from Harvard Medical School, looked at Alcoholics Anonymous’s retention rates along with studies on sobriety and rates of active involvement (attending meetings regularly and working the program) among AA members. Based on these data, he put AA’s actual success rate somewhere between 5 and 8 percent. That is just a rough estimate, but it’s the most precise one I’ve been able to find. A big reason why people criticized AA/12-steps is because it is not evidence based and, frankly, some of it teachings are factually incorrect. And the biggest problem with AA is stated in TFA: "rigid interpretations of the 12 steps can even lead people to reject treatments or approaches that work for some people." Expecting a treatment to be evidence based isn't being "an armchair scientist." We should absolutely demand evidence based treatment!! AA is really just a support group/fellowship. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not a medical treatment so let's not keep pretending it is. I think this quote from TFA is spot on: "...one of the big non-spiritual reasons that 12-step treatment and AA work for some people: They help foster changes in a person’s social network." https://psmag.com/.amp/social-justice/75-years-alcoholics-anonymous-time-admit-problem-74268 https://psmag.com/.amp/social-justice/75-years-alcoholics-an... >In any other area of medicine, if your doctor told you that the cure for your disease involved surrendering to a “higher power,” praying to have your “defects of character” lifted, and accepting your “powerlessness,” as outlined in the original 12 steps, you’d probably seek a second opinion.

slfnflctd 9y ago

> AA doesn't work for all personality types Confession time: Hi, my name is [redacted] and I'm an alcoholic who tried AA a couple times and spent a few years shitting on it after that. Looking back, most of this was due to the heavy emphasis on Christianity within the groups I attended, and I have since learned it doesn't occur in all areas. My current approach is harm reduction, then sensible moderation-- I have gradually brought my drinking down to 3-4 drinks per day after a peak at 20 or so a while back. My ultimate goal is an average of 2 per day or less. I am not fully confident I will succeed, but continuing to try is the lifestyle change I am hanging on to. I got to this point by focusing on the things I wanted that alcohol was preventing, along with getting better exercise, nutrition and sleep. I don't think my approach would work for everyone. It wouldn't have even worked for me a few years ago. As others have pointed out here, this is an extremely complex issue with lots of ever-changing variables. AA is a stopgap. It is the most widely available & accessible program, available nearly everywhere, and it's free. For some people, in some groups, it is far better than nothing. For others in other groups, it may be worse than nothing. Regardless, I'm convinced it saved the life of a dear friend of mine and I cannot casually dismiss it any longer. If you suspect you are an addict, all I can tell you is that any time you feel the tiniest spark of inclination to do something about it, chase that. Try different things until something seems to start working, then stick with it for a while. There is a good chance you'll eventually find a way out-- studies have reported varying numbers, but it appears that at least 1/3 of people in this predicament do. The important thing is to destroy that sense of being resigned to your fate, and to value whatever you've ever loved in life enough to act. You absolutely can have a brain that works better and behaves more like you want it to, and and this affects everything you experience.