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Anecdotal experience with a men's AA group that a friend of mind joined (and brought me along for moral support): a big part of the value that AA provides is a

Anecdotal experience with a men's AA group that a friend of mind joined (and brought me along for moral support): a big part of the value that AA provides is a support network for dealing with some of the trauma and self-loathing that they had previously been using alcohol to drown out. The degree of emotional intimacy in the relationships was something I missed when I moved to a different city and (not being alcoholic) no longer felt comfortable going to meetings.

alex_hitchins 9y ago
The one thing I am noticing is that every group seems different. I have been several times however found the religious aspect very off putting. I did find being able to talk to others helpful however. If there wasn't the god bothering aspect I'd probably still go semi-frequently today having been sober for over ten years now. To anyone like me out there, anti-theist but alcoholic, it is probably still a good idea to go to a meeting, at least once. Your group might be very different and even if you don't agree with everything it will show you that you aren't alone.
- rvense 9y ago
  Meetings have made me very accepting of people with different views on these subjects than myself. One story I often return to is of a guy who had been so far gone, when he went to visit his mother the first time in years, she simply closed the door in his face without saying a word. If a man's path from that to healing involves Jesus, I am not going to stand in the way. I can't remember ever having to explicitly ask for tolerance of my non-belief. We speak for ourselves, in the meetings and afterwards. I should say that I'm not in the US, and that this might be reflective of being in a society where public displays of religiosity are, generally, less common and less accepted.
  - alex_hitchins 9y ago
    I am in the UK. I was certainly welcomed to the meetings and at no point felt uncomfortable or was made to feel 'bad' for my non-belief. I just find when everyone talks of how Jesus helped them, and the hand holding prayer sessions an obstacle to my participation. I believe it's possible to get sober without needing a 'higher-power'. Interested to see the downvotes to my comment. HN is a funny place indeed!
    - erric 9y ago
      I dated a sober person in the AA program for a number of years. They had 15+ years which I applaud. I agree with you that one of the things I didn't like was the whole higher power cruft. They say it can be anything as long as you acknowledge that it's greater then you. I know some people who's higher power was the sun or other celestial bodies, because they were atheist and highly scientifically minded. I'm with you, I believe it's possible to get sober without a higher power. I think I remember reading some where that while AA doesn't publish success rates, at one time they did and it's 5%, which is the same percent for cold turkey.
      - alex_hitchins 9y ago
        Thanks for the comment. My logic is that to overcome your addiction you need to take control. Having a higher power is unnecessary, you have to want to do it for yourself and only you can actually achieve it. Others can help, but mentally, physically and emotionally it needs to be all your own work or it won't work. That said, if it works for people then great! I think such an organisation is very important, it's just a shame for me I can't participate as the I disagree with the fundamental element. Ancillary stuff is great. If there was need for it, I'd be up for helping with any online, atheist/secular AA style program. I feel some sort of duty to help others as unless you have been there, through all the shite that goes with it, it's hard to understand.
        erric 9y ago
        Right on! It's funny, I was raised in a restrictive religious environment and rebelled against it early on. I remember asking my dad one day why god couldn't help me clean my room, the response was, "God helps those who help them selves". So I do the work and he gets credit? No thank you! You're absolutely correct, it is up to you. There are external(non super natural) forces that can help, but ultimately it is the internal that has to start and sustain through change.
    - thenobsta 9y ago
      I'm not an alcoholic, but am very familiar with AA. The assent to a higher power thing is tough for many that I know in AA, but they still find benefit in it(AA). I tend to think that the higher power thing is useful to help externalize some of the bad things that happens in life (while still realizing that you have to deal with them). The narrative would be like, "This bad thing was put in my life by something beyond my control. It's not my fault this bad thing happened to me." I think this is useful for both historical trauma and issues those in AA deal with in the present.
dazc 9y ago
A friend of mine considered joining his local AA group and I advised against it. The reason being he is easily led and it was inevitable that weaker members of the group (those who had no chance of quitting) would attach to him and undermine his efforts. At his first meeting he made a friend who suggested they share a few cans afterwards. He didn't go back to AA but joined another community style self-help group and exactly the same thing happened. Anecdotally, I have heard similar stories from people attending stop-smoking groups and even weight watchers.

alex_hitchins 9y ago

The one thing I am noticing is that every group seems different. I have been several times however found the religious aspect very off putting. I did find being able to talk to others helpful however. If there wasn't the god bothering aspect I'd probably still go semi-frequently today having been sober for over ten years now. To anyone like me out there, anti-theist but alcoholic, it is probably still a good idea to go to a meeting, at least once. Your group might be very different and even if you don't agree with everything it will show you that you aren't alone.

rvense 9y ago
Meetings have made me very accepting of people with different views on these subjects than myself. One story I often return to is of a guy who had been so far gone, when he went to visit his mother the first time in years, she simply closed the door in his face without saying a word. If a man's path from that to healing involves Jesus, I am not going to stand in the way. I can't remember ever having to explicitly ask for tolerance of my non-belief. We speak for ourselves, in the meetings and afterwards. I should say that I'm not in the US, and that this might be reflective of being in a society where public displays of religiosity are, generally, less common and less accepted.
- alex_hitchins 9y ago
  I am in the UK. I was certainly welcomed to the meetings and at no point felt uncomfortable or was made to feel 'bad' for my non-belief. I just find when everyone talks of how Jesus helped them, and the hand holding prayer sessions an obstacle to my participation. I believe it's possible to get sober without needing a 'higher-power'. Interested to see the downvotes to my comment. HN is a funny place indeed!
  - erric 9y ago
    I dated a sober person in the AA program for a number of years. They had 15+ years which I applaud. I agree with you that one of the things I didn't like was the whole higher power cruft. They say it can be anything as long as you acknowledge that it's greater then you. I know some people who's higher power was the sun or other celestial bodies, because they were atheist and highly scientifically minded. I'm with you, I believe it's possible to get sober without a higher power. I think I remember reading some where that while AA doesn't publish success rates, at one time they did and it's 5%, which is the same percent for cold turkey.
    - alex_hitchins 9y ago
      Thanks for the comment. My logic is that to overcome your addiction you need to take control. Having a higher power is unnecessary, you have to want to do it for yourself and only you can actually achieve it. Others can help, but mentally, physically and emotionally it needs to be all your own work or it won't work. That said, if it works for people then great! I think such an organisation is very important, it's just a shame for me I can't participate as the I disagree with the fundamental element. Ancillary stuff is great. If there was need for it, I'd be up for helping with any online, atheist/secular AA style program. I feel some sort of duty to help others as unless you have been there, through all the shite that goes with it, it's hard to understand.
      - erric 9y ago
        Right on! It's funny, I was raised in a restrictive religious environment and rebelled against it early on. I remember asking my dad one day why god couldn't help me clean my room, the response was, "God helps those who help them selves". So I do the work and he gets credit? No thank you! You're absolutely correct, it is up to you. There are external(non super natural) forces that can help, but ultimately it is the internal that has to start and sustain through change.
  - thenobsta 9y ago
    I'm not an alcoholic, but am very familiar with AA. The assent to a higher power thing is tough for many that I know in AA, but they still find benefit in it(AA). I tend to think that the higher power thing is useful to help externalize some of the bad things that happens in life (while still realizing that you have to deal with them). The narrative would be like, "This bad thing was put in my life by something beyond my control. It's not my fault this bad thing happened to me." I think this is useful for both historical trauma and issues those in AA deal with in the present.

dazc 9y ago

A friend of mine considered joining his local AA group and I advised against it. The reason being he is easily led and it was inevitable that weaker members of the group (those who had no chance of quitting) would attach to him and undermine his efforts. At his first meeting he made a friend who suggested they share a few cans afterwards. He didn't go back to AA but joined another community style self-help group and exactly the same thing happened. Anecdotally, I have heard similar stories from people attending stop-smoking groups and even weight watchers.