5 ms·

> I want the most vile pieces of shit to have their chance to speak... so that I can talk to them. I can talk to those who will listen. I will combat their idea

by fao_ 9y ago

> I want the most vile pieces of shit to have their chance to speak... so that I can talk to them. I can talk to those who will listen. I will combat their ideas. While this idea is admirable, fascist/Nazi dialogue has shown again and again that fascists are not interested in "fair" debate. All they want is a larger audience so they can pass on their views -- and look at America. Do you really think that the hundreds of thousands of people debating Richard Spencer[0], Steve Bannon[1] and Milo Yiannopoulos[2] has stopped the spread? No! In fact, it has enabled them to spread their sources of propaganda further into the world. Now even centrist friends of mine are linking to Breitbart as if it is a valid source of information[3]. Some viruses and infections you can only kill through isolation. Fascism is one of them. [0]: In case that you have any doubt that Spencer is a Nazi: Instead of asking how we can make reparations for slavery, colonialism, and Apartheid or how we can equalize academic scores and incomes, we should instead be asking questions like, "Does human civilization actually need the Black race?" "Is Black genocide right?" and, if it is, "What would be the best and easiest way to dispose of them?" With starting points like this, wisdom is sure to flourish, enlightenment to dawn. -- Richard Spencer, "Is Black Genocide Right?" (2012) (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Richard_Spencer https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Richard_Spencer) [1]: Bannon has voiced support for UKIP and Front National. The former is an close offshoot of Britain First, one of whom murdered a British politician a year or so ago (He had a golden eagle statue and a shrine to Nazi literature). The latter was literally founded by a member of the SS, Pierre Bousquet. FN has also been known to murder French politicians. (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon) [2]: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Milo_Yiannopoulos https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Milo_Yiannopoulos [3]: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Breitbart.com https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Breitbart.com

baud147258 9y ago
> FN has also been known to murder French politicians. Do you have any sources on that? With all the things the media in France is saying about the FN, I don't think they would have missed something so important.
- fao_ 9y ago
  > https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Front_National https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Front_National Nevertheless, and notwithstanding the racist murders committed by some members (see Brahim Bouarram thrown in the Seine, and Ibrahim Ali, shot), the FN continued its progress and even managed to gain some towns in 1995, such as Toulon and Orange, where, once more, such mayors managed to show their crass incompetence[3] and got booted in 2001 by the electors. Source for Brahim Bouarram mentioning FN: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/paris-crowds-gather-mark-killing-brahim-bouarram-170501205916744.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/paris-crowds-gather-m... On May 1, 1995, skinheads rallying with the far-right National Front (FN) threw Brahim Bouarram, a 29-year-old Frenchman of Moroccan descent, into the River Seine and disappeared into the crowds. [...] At the time of Bouarram's death, Jean-Marie Le Pen described the incident as "minor". [...] "The FN is an anti-Semitic, racist, xenophobic party," said Abdallah, also of the ATMF. "The normalisation of the ideas of the NF is worrying us. Even more so, it scares us that a large proportion of the army, gendarmerie and police vote for Marine Le Pen. We are scared for our kids who have brown, black and Arab faces when they get stopped by the police." Source for Ibrahim Ali mentioning FN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ibrahim_Ali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ibrahim_Ali Root Source for Ibrahim Ali mentioning FN: https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/20/france-shooting-attacks-idAFL6E8EK6OY20120320 https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/20/france-shooting-a... [Ibrahim Ali] was walking with a group of ten other young men in Marseilles' XVth arrondissement, when they encountered three supporters of Jean-Marie Le Pen's Front National party, armed with guns, who had been posting campaign signs nearby. The latter group opened fire on them. Ibrahim Ali was shot in the back.
  - baud147258 9y ago
    Thank you for your answer. That could be constructed as racist hate crime by party "supporters" (not even members), and could have nothing to do with the party itself. On the other hand, since it align with the party's ideology, it can be said that the FN has a part in it. But I don't see how it shows that the FN has murdered any politicians, which was what I was asking about

by fao_ 9y ago

baud147258 9y ago

> FN has also been known to murder French politicians. Do you have any sources on that? With all the things the media in France is saying about the FN, I don't think they would have missed something so important.

fao_ 9y ago
> https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Front_National https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Front_National Nevertheless, and notwithstanding the racist murders committed by some members (see Brahim Bouarram thrown in the Seine, and Ibrahim Ali, shot), the FN continued its progress and even managed to gain some towns in 1995, such as Toulon and Orange, where, once more, such mayors managed to show their crass incompetence[3] and got booted in 2001 by the electors. Source for Brahim Bouarram mentioning FN: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/paris-crowds-gather-mark-killing-brahim-bouarram-170501205916744.html https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/05/paris-crowds-gather-m... On May 1, 1995, skinheads rallying with the far-right National Front (FN) threw Brahim Bouarram, a 29-year-old Frenchman of Moroccan descent, into the River Seine and disappeared into the crowds. [...] At the time of Bouarram's death, Jean-Marie Le Pen described the incident as "minor". [...] "The FN is an anti-Semitic, racist, xenophobic party," said Abdallah, also of the ATMF. "The normalisation of the ideas of the NF is worrying us. Even more so, it scares us that a large proportion of the army, gendarmerie and police vote for Marine Le Pen. We are scared for our kids who have brown, black and Arab faces when they get stopped by the police." Source for Ibrahim Ali mentioning FN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ibrahim_Ali https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Ibrahim_Ali Root Source for Ibrahim Ali mentioning FN: https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/20/france-shooting-attacks-idAFL6E8EK6OY20120320 https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/20/france-shooting-a... [Ibrahim Ali] was walking with a group of ten other young men in Marseilles' XVth arrondissement, when they encountered three supporters of Jean-Marie Le Pen's Front National party, armed with guns, who had been posting campaign signs nearby. The latter group opened fire on them. Ibrahim Ali was shot in the back.
- baud147258 9y ago
  Thank you for your answer. That could be constructed as racist hate crime by party "supporters" (not even members), and could have nothing to do with the party itself. On the other hand, since it align with the party's ideology, it can be said that the FN has a part in it. But I don't see how it shows that the FN has murdered any politicians, which was what I was asking about