5 ms·

You can hate whatever pizza you want

nailer 9y ago
Wouldn't that be racist against stuffed crust pizza? Why one idea and not the other? Are we allowed to dislike Christianity? Scientology? Libertarianism? Socialism? Capitalism? Cutting off dogs tails? If so, what makes Islam non dislikeable? Are you aware of the many ex Muslims and the harassment they receive? The people who've criticised Islam and been killed for it? Do you think declaring Islam non dislikeable helps this? Do you know anyone who is an ex black person or ex white person or ex asian? Why not?
- everdev 9y ago
  When you focus on certain groups you're probably missing the point. There are Christian parents who have banned their child from returning home when they renounced religion. And there are many Muslims who accept people after they renounce Islam. Instead, probably better to say: When people harass someone who doesn't agree with them, I feel afraid for that person's safety. That's not racist and still honors your fear. To just focus on Muslims doing this shows a bias and lumps many innocent people into a stereotype.
  - nailer 9y ago
    Focusing on ideas is necessary to deal with the problem. By ignoring it, you're missing the point. You seem to think I'm focusing on people, but: a person who believes in the idea of Islam is a Muslim, is the same way a person who believes in communism is a communist and a person who believes in fascism is a fascist. There is little difference between saying a bad idea is bad versus saying supporters of a bad idea are bad for supporting it. Surveying Muslims worldwide and asking them if, for example, they think being gay should be illegal, and reporting what they say, is not bias, it is fact. You're promoting bias by suggesting we ignore those results. And again, because you haven't responded: Islam isn't a race. If we can be racist aginst Islam, can we be racist against people who like stuffed crust pizza?
    - everdev 9y ago
      It's much better to say "I'm afraid for the safety and lack of equality and freedom for gay people if being gay is illegal." By focusing on Muslims, you're making it personal and ignoring many non-Muslim countries and religions which have anti-gay beliefs. If the gay equality issue is important to you, why are you focused so narrowly on Muslims? Why not simply focus on your core issue which is equality for gays? Making it about your fear allows people to hear you and is not arguable. Saying "Muslims are anti-gay" is arguable because you can't accurately survey billions of Muslims worldwide and statistically you'll probably find millions of Muslims who don't agree with every aspect of the religion and some that are gay themselves. Religion and races are not consistent or homogenous. Lumping people together on those criteria is rarely accurate or productive. For semantics, the term racism applies to race as you mentioned. If you hate Muslims that I suppose the best way to describe you is bigoted or a religious discriminator. And as you seem intent on the pizza aspect, pizza isn't a person. While hating a pizza sounds like anger issues, it's certainly not the same connotation or implications of hating a person. If you want to be kinder to your pizza friends, you could say "I prefer the taste of thin crust pizza". If you want to be kinder to your human friends, I would focus on what you want rather than what you think a group of unique people is all acting out in unison.
      - nailer 9y ago
        > It's much better to say "I'm afraid for the safety and lack of equality and freedom for gay people if being gay is illegal." By focusing on Muslims, you're making it personal and ignoring many non-Muslim countries and religions which have anti-gay beliefs. No, you're avoiding the root causes because you're afraid to address them, which in turns harms gay people, women, ex-Muslims, atheists and other victims of Islam. Not focusing on Islam- related violence towards gays and women because other violence towards gays and women exists is awful. > Religion and races We haven't talked about a single race the entire discussion. Why are you introducing it? > And as you seem intent on the pizza aspect, pizza isn't a person. You're right, it's an idea. Let's call people who believe in this idea StuffCrustPizzaLovers. Do you think disliking StuffCrustPizzaLovers is racist? If I say 'Islam is bad' - since Islam isn't a person - is that now OK according to your rules? > rather than what you think a group of unique people is all acting out in unison. Not sure if you're lying or just not reading anything I'm writing, but I'm focusing on what's been measured, as previously discussed, using Muslims' opinion as a primary source. Are you saying think most Muslims are liars? If you want to stop making the world worse, let people who have the courage to report problems do their jobs without labelling them racist.
nailer 9y ago
Wouldn't that be racist against people who like stuffed crust pizza? (Correcting self as you mentioned later)

Wouldn't that be racist against stuffed crust pizza? Why one idea and not the other? Are we allowed to dislike Christianity? Scientology? Libertarianism? Socialism? Capitalism? Cutting off dogs tails? If so, what makes Islam non dislikeable? Are you aware of the many ex Muslims and the harassment they receive? The people who've criticised Islam and been killed for it? Do you think declaring Islam non dislikeable helps this? Do you know anyone who is an ex black person or ex white person or ex asian? Why not?

everdev 9y ago
When you focus on certain groups you're probably missing the point. There are Christian parents who have banned their child from returning home when they renounced religion. And there are many Muslims who accept people after they renounce Islam. Instead, probably better to say: When people harass someone who doesn't agree with them, I feel afraid for that person's safety. That's not racist and still honors your fear. To just focus on Muslims doing this shows a bias and lumps many innocent people into a stereotype.
- nailer 9y ago
  Focusing on ideas is necessary to deal with the problem. By ignoring it, you're missing the point. You seem to think I'm focusing on people, but: a person who believes in the idea of Islam is a Muslim, is the same way a person who believes in communism is a communist and a person who believes in fascism is a fascist. There is little difference between saying a bad idea is bad versus saying supporters of a bad idea are bad for supporting it. Surveying Muslims worldwide and asking them if, for example, they think being gay should be illegal, and reporting what they say, is not bias, it is fact. You're promoting bias by suggesting we ignore those results. And again, because you haven't responded: Islam isn't a race. If we can be racist aginst Islam, can we be racist against people who like stuffed crust pizza?
  - everdev 9y ago
    It's much better to say "I'm afraid for the safety and lack of equality and freedom for gay people if being gay is illegal." By focusing on Muslims, you're making it personal and ignoring many non-Muslim countries and religions which have anti-gay beliefs. If the gay equality issue is important to you, why are you focused so narrowly on Muslims? Why not simply focus on your core issue which is equality for gays? Making it about your fear allows people to hear you and is not arguable. Saying "Muslims are anti-gay" is arguable because you can't accurately survey billions of Muslims worldwide and statistically you'll probably find millions of Muslims who don't agree with every aspect of the religion and some that are gay themselves. Religion and races are not consistent or homogenous. Lumping people together on those criteria is rarely accurate or productive. For semantics, the term racism applies to race as you mentioned. If you hate Muslims that I suppose the best way to describe you is bigoted or a religious discriminator. And as you seem intent on the pizza aspect, pizza isn't a person. While hating a pizza sounds like anger issues, it's certainly not the same connotation or implications of hating a person. If you want to be kinder to your pizza friends, you could say "I prefer the taste of thin crust pizza". If you want to be kinder to your human friends, I would focus on what you want rather than what you think a group of unique people is all acting out in unison.
    - nailer 9y ago
      > It's much better to say "I'm afraid for the safety and lack of equality and freedom for gay people if being gay is illegal." By focusing on Muslims, you're making it personal and ignoring many non-Muslim countries and religions which have anti-gay beliefs. No, you're avoiding the root causes because you're afraid to address them, which in turns harms gay people, women, ex-Muslims, atheists and other victims of Islam. Not focusing on Islam- related violence towards gays and women because other violence towards gays and women exists is awful. > Religion and races We haven't talked about a single race the entire discussion. Why are you introducing it? > And as you seem intent on the pizza aspect, pizza isn't a person. You're right, it's an idea. Let's call people who believe in this idea StuffCrustPizzaLovers. Do you think disliking StuffCrustPizzaLovers is racist? If I say 'Islam is bad' - since Islam isn't a person - is that now OK according to your rules? > rather than what you think a group of unique people is all acting out in unison. Not sure if you're lying or just not reading anything I'm writing, but I'm focusing on what's been measured, as previously discussed, using Muslims' opinion as a primary source. Are you saying think most Muslims are liars? If you want to stop making the world worse, let people who have the courage to report problems do their jobs without labelling them racist.

nailer 9y ago

Wouldn't that be racist against people who like stuffed crust pizza? (Correcting self as you mentioned later)