5 ms·

I don't understand your meaning, sorry. Do you mean would I want to see 'violent american black rap lyrics' banned? Depends on what is said I guess? If theres

I don't understand your meaning, sorry. Do you mean would I want to see 'violent american black rap lyrics' banned? Depends on what is said I guess? If theres a song about 'kill all the jews' we've had enough of that shit here 70 years ago. Generally german courts are very narrow about what is Volksverhetzung. If you run afoul of it you are very far away from any sensible discussion. The law is basically "don't (1)incite violence (2)against Minorities in a way that is (3)able to disturb the public peace". These three things are impossible to do without generally being a dangerous ass. We don't want people like that.

steveeq1 9y ago
> I don't understand your meaning, sorry. Meaning if there's american rap song about killing people, do germans ban it? These violent lyrics seem to fall under the law as you described. Also, are violent american rap songs banned (in practice) in germany? Do germans have this same negative attitude to american "thugs"?
- Grollicus 9y ago
  Songs about killing people are generally not banned because of Volksverhetzung. That law is specific about the 3 things I listed in me comment above. (3) is a very strong requirement because it means the song must be theoretically able to disturb the peace in germany, eg. incite riots or something equally drastic. Theres not much that can do that. Songs about killing minorities might be banned, but then it's still about context. Artists generally have a lot of room and when they write stuff like that theres usually satire in play. Which would propably be okay. I don't know about any artists that got hit with Volksverhetzung. On the other hand, I'd expect Songs about killing to get hit by youth protection laws which means they can't be played on the radio, can't be advertised and can't be sold to minors.
  - steveeq1 9y ago
    > is a very strong requirement because it means the song must be theoretically able to disturb the peace in germany, eg. incite riots or something equally drastic. Many american rap songs do just exactly this, and it's not satirical. Sometimes rap songs do mentioning killing jews specifically although it is relatively rare. Most of the time it talks about killing other black people, which falls under the second part of the law you describe. Do Germans make a big deal about this? I'm not german, I'm just trying to understand the viewpoint. Also, do germans find american thugs in low regard? One can argue they can be just as dangerous.
    - anigbrowl 9y ago
      'Many American rap songs' incite riots? this is news to me.
      - raguuu 9y ago
        Ghetto culture?
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Many american rap songs do just exactly this Which American rap songs, specifically, have incited riots or similarly drastically disturbed the peace, in Germany or elsewhere?
    - Grollicus 9y ago
      > which falls under the second part of the law you describe To be hit with Volksverhetzung you need to meet all three criteria. If you have musicians that do, they better not play a gig in germany or they might stay here for a while longer. When not talking about Nazism (they have proven 3, so the bar is a little lower) to hit (3) you need to build some movement. Maybe found a local KKK? Generally there needs to be a bit more than just talk. > Also, do germans find american thugs in low regard? One can argue they can be just as dangerous. The average german propably doesn't care much about them. Some teenagers propably liked their idealized lifestyle. But they've propably grown out of that by now. I don't know what modern day teenagers like anymore =) We don't really have gangs and they are propably seen more as a social problem than one for law enforcement. A symptom of the huge inequality / divide in american society.
- darklajid 9y ago
  No idea about those violent American rap songs, but violent German songs? Sure. And not just right-winged Nazi shit, extreme leftist content is hit as well and banned (I don't listen to music from either faction but could readily find examples/quotes about music from both ends of the spectrum being banned).
abiox 9y ago
> we've had enough of that shit here 70 years ago. you had a military dictatorship. it couldn't be opposed or contested by anyone, because you and/or your family would just be killed. german citizens couldn't stop the killing any more than russians could stop millions from being killed. that was the fundamental problem. dictators do as they please. criminalizing the speech of random bob under a democratic government isn't doing much of anything, and these laws mean nothing to a dictator. what actually matters is having a democratic government that is beholden to the citizenry. if anything this speech criminalization is a theater of sorts that makes you less safe.
- Grollicus 9y ago
  What you are writing here is a dangerous thing because it relativizes the holocaust. Military Dictatorships don't suddenly appear out of nothing. My grandparents' generation chose to actively look away because they thought it won't get "that bad". They might have told themselfes they didn't know better - you know, afterwards - but you can't remove 6 million people out of a country of maybe 60 million and no one notices shit. Well, it did get bad, and then some. We know that now, we can now look back and see how it began. It began with social insecurity and propaganda (populism). We can't fight social insecurity but we can fight propaganda and that is why we have § 130 Volksverhetzung.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > They might have told themselfes they didn't know better - you know, afterwards - but you can't remove 6 million people out of a country of maybe 60 million and no one notices shit. Removal from the general population was an overt policy (and overtly not all that different than what the Western allies did with suspect populations identified by ethnicity.) The actual conditions to which Jews and others were removed, even prior to the implementation of extermination, was not overt. No one was trying to conceal the removal of disfavored segments from the general population.
    - Grollicus 9y ago
      > The actual conditions to which Jews and others were removed, even prior to the implementation of extermination, was not overt. That is not correct. Most Jews in Germany were sent to work camps and used as slave labour for local factories. Check out this response: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3mnglz/did_the_germans_who_lived_near_concentration/cvh66l4/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3mnglz/did_t... Generally Germany knew, or at least had an idea that something was wrong. Everyone who tells you differently is selling you an agenda.

steveeq1 9y ago

> I don't understand your meaning, sorry. Meaning if there's american rap song about killing people, do germans ban it? These violent lyrics seem to fall under the law as you described. Also, are violent american rap songs banned (in practice) in germany? Do germans have this same negative attitude to american "thugs"?

Grollicus 9y ago
Songs about killing people are generally not banned because of Volksverhetzung. That law is specific about the 3 things I listed in me comment above. (3) is a very strong requirement because it means the song must be theoretically able to disturb the peace in germany, eg. incite riots or something equally drastic. Theres not much that can do that. Songs about killing minorities might be banned, but then it's still about context. Artists generally have a lot of room and when they write stuff like that theres usually satire in play. Which would propably be okay. I don't know about any artists that got hit with Volksverhetzung. On the other hand, I'd expect Songs about killing to get hit by youth protection laws which means they can't be played on the radio, can't be advertised and can't be sold to minors.
- steveeq1 9y ago
  > is a very strong requirement because it means the song must be theoretically able to disturb the peace in germany, eg. incite riots or something equally drastic. Many american rap songs do just exactly this, and it's not satirical. Sometimes rap songs do mentioning killing jews specifically although it is relatively rare. Most of the time it talks about killing other black people, which falls under the second part of the law you describe. Do Germans make a big deal about this? I'm not german, I'm just trying to understand the viewpoint. Also, do germans find american thugs in low regard? One can argue they can be just as dangerous.
  - anigbrowl 9y ago
    'Many American rap songs' incite riots? this is news to me.
    - raguuu 9y ago
      Ghetto culture?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Many american rap songs do just exactly this Which American rap songs, specifically, have incited riots or similarly drastically disturbed the peace, in Germany or elsewhere?
  - Grollicus 9y ago
    > which falls under the second part of the law you describe To be hit with Volksverhetzung you need to meet all three criteria. If you have musicians that do, they better not play a gig in germany or they might stay here for a while longer. When not talking about Nazism (they have proven 3, so the bar is a little lower) to hit (3) you need to build some movement. Maybe found a local KKK? Generally there needs to be a bit more than just talk. > Also, do germans find american thugs in low regard? One can argue they can be just as dangerous. The average german propably doesn't care much about them. Some teenagers propably liked their idealized lifestyle. But they've propably grown out of that by now. I don't know what modern day teenagers like anymore =) We don't really have gangs and they are propably seen more as a social problem than one for law enforcement. A symptom of the huge inequality / divide in american society.
darklajid 9y ago
No idea about those violent American rap songs, but violent German songs? Sure. And not just right-winged Nazi shit, extreme leftist content is hit as well and banned (I don't listen to music from either faction but could readily find examples/quotes about music from both ends of the spectrum being banned).

abiox 9y ago

> we've had enough of that shit here 70 years ago. you had a military dictatorship. it couldn't be opposed or contested by anyone, because you and/or your family would just be killed. german citizens couldn't stop the killing any more than russians could stop millions from being killed. that was the fundamental problem. dictators do as they please. criminalizing the speech of random bob under a democratic government isn't doing much of anything, and these laws mean nothing to a dictator. what actually matters is having a democratic government that is beholden to the citizenry. if anything this speech criminalization is a theater of sorts that makes you less safe.

Grollicus 9y ago
What you are writing here is a dangerous thing because it relativizes the holocaust. Military Dictatorships don't suddenly appear out of nothing. My grandparents' generation chose to actively look away because they thought it won't get "that bad". They might have told themselfes they didn't know better - you know, afterwards - but you can't remove 6 million people out of a country of maybe 60 million and no one notices shit. Well, it did get bad, and then some. We know that now, we can now look back and see how it began. It began with social insecurity and propaganda (populism). We can't fight social insecurity but we can fight propaganda and that is why we have § 130 Volksverhetzung.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > They might have told themselfes they didn't know better - you know, afterwards - but you can't remove 6 million people out of a country of maybe 60 million and no one notices shit. Removal from the general population was an overt policy (and overtly not all that different than what the Western allies did with suspect populations identified by ethnicity.) The actual conditions to which Jews and others were removed, even prior to the implementation of extermination, was not overt. No one was trying to conceal the removal of disfavored segments from the general population.
  - Grollicus 9y ago
    > The actual conditions to which Jews and others were removed, even prior to the implementation of extermination, was not overt. That is not correct. Most Jews in Germany were sent to work camps and used as slave labour for local factories. Check out this response: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3mnglz/did_the_germans_who_lived_near_concentration/cvh66l4/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3mnglz/did_t... Generally Germany knew, or at least had an idea that something was wrong. Everyone who tells you differently is selling you an agenda.