7 ms·

Racism is not a political opinion. Political opinions are along the lines of "are my taxes too high" or "do we spend more on parks or on police". A belief in

by Frondo 9y ago

Racism is not a political opinion. Political opinions are along the lines of "are my taxes too high" or "do we spend more on parks or on police". A belief in the inferiority of another race isn't political, it's something else. I don't know what, but discriminatory and bigoted beliefs don't belong in political discussions or any discussions about how we govern ourselves or organize society.

aceofspad4s 9y ago
Racism does not have to be about "the inferiority of another race". Racism can be "I don't think it's good for the economy that so many people from outside are coming" or "this culture is completely incompatible with ours and I don't want these people here". It's a pretty lax word. By outlawing "racism" you're outlawing discourse.
- zeeZ 9y ago
  What you're describing sounds like xenophobia to me, not racism.
- mithr 9y ago
  This is not true; as in, racism has a clear dictionary definition as "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." (Source: Oxford English Dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism)
  - gehwartzen 9y ago
    How is "race" defined?
- blattimwind 9y ago
  Volksverhetzung is juristically exhaustively defined and none of your "racism can be" statements fulfill that definition. Volksverhetzung is not about "inciting hatred", which does not convey the concept. This article also isn't about Volksverhetzung, it's about the NetzDG, a new law.
- worstscenario 9y ago
  "Racism" is not outlawed, racial injury and hate crimes are.
- everdev 9y ago
  Anti-Immigration != Racism Saying you don't want immigration isn't racist if it applies to more than just immigration from certain racial groups. However, her tweet was not about that. She called out Muslims as having certain behaviors which is clearly racist.
  - nailer 9y ago
    > She called out Muslims as having certain behaviors which is clearly racist. No. Islam is not a race.
  - kofejnik 9y ago
    the left are constantly calling out Christians for certain behaviors, is this racist?
    - nailer 9y ago
      I dislike stuffed crust pizzas, which are also not a race, but I imagine everdev considers that racist too.
      - everdev 9y ago
        You can hate whatever pizza you want
        nailer 9y ago
        Wouldn't that be racist against stuffed crust pizza? Why one idea and not the other? Are we allowed to dislike Christianity? Scientology? Libertarianism? Socialism? Capitalism? Cutting off dogs tails? If so, what makes Islam non dislikeable? Are you aware of the many ex Muslims and the harassment they receive? The people who've criticised Islam and been killed for it? Do you think declaring Islam non dislikeable helps this? Do you know anyone who is an ex black person or ex white person or ex asian? Why not?
        everdev 9y ago
- coffee9 9y ago
  If it's not in your self-interest what's the problem? They're certainly not immigrating for your benefit.
bluthru 9y ago
Social science has observed that race has real implications in a society. http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/... Are you saying that it's beyond the pale to even have a conversation about diversity and immigration policy? Are you assuming that an inflow of people from anywhere in the world is always good or neutral?
Houshalter 9y ago
First of all muslims aren't really a "race". Debates about race are completely irrelevant, they are criticizing islamic culture and religion. No one would care about someone mocking christian beliefs of culture. Second you are right. Beliefs about differences between races aren't political. They are scientific. These are scientific question that are completely beyond politics. Your morality or political opinions have no impact on the truth value of scientific claims. Censoring things does not make them untrue.
- vk23 9y ago
  The whole "islamic culture" thing is just a populist move. In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than anything else. Regarding the second part: Its obviously true that there is a scientific base to racial questions but discussions about it are rarely based on scientific research. Most of the time its a political / cultural conflict.
  - Houshalter 9y ago
    >In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Yes they do. Even Trump has supported increasing Christian refugees. Although religion is far from the only important factor to Western culture. >Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than anything else. I fail to see how wanting to preserve your race is racism. I like my own people and want to see them continue. It doesn't mean I literally hate and oppose other peoples. And I really do think you underestimate the cultural aspect of it. If they were brown skinned but otherwise culturally indistinguishable from Europeans, I think far fewer people would care. Labeling your opponents "racists" is just a convenient way of dismissing their concerns. >Its obviously true that there is a scientific base to racial questions but discussions about it are rarely based on scientific research. That's more of an issue that average people don't know how to do scientific research or think scientifically. I think they intuitively see things like "hey this group of people seems to do way worse" and "the mainstream oppression narrative doesn't really make sense." Without having the knowledge to dig up the actual statistics and figures to prove that.

by Frondo 9y ago

aceofspad4s 9y ago

Racism does not have to be about "the inferiority of another race". Racism can be "I don't think it's good for the economy that so many people from outside are coming" or "this culture is completely incompatible with ours and I don't want these people here". It's a pretty lax word. By outlawing "racism" you're outlawing discourse.

zeeZ 9y ago
What you're describing sounds like xenophobia to me, not racism.
mithr 9y ago
This is not true; as in, racism has a clear dictionary definition as "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." (Source: Oxford English Dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism)
- gehwartzen 9y ago
  How is "race" defined?
blattimwind 9y ago
Volksverhetzung is juristically exhaustively defined and none of your "racism can be" statements fulfill that definition. Volksverhetzung is not about "inciting hatred", which does not convey the concept. This article also isn't about Volksverhetzung, it's about the NetzDG, a new law.
worstscenario 9y ago
"Racism" is not outlawed, racial injury and hate crimes are.
everdev 9y ago
Anti-Immigration != Racism Saying you don't want immigration isn't racist if it applies to more than just immigration from certain racial groups. However, her tweet was not about that. She called out Muslims as having certain behaviors which is clearly racist.
- nailer 9y ago
  > She called out Muslims as having certain behaviors which is clearly racist. No. Islam is not a race.
- kofejnik 9y ago
  the left are constantly calling out Christians for certain behaviors, is this racist?
  - nailer 9y ago
    I dislike stuffed crust pizzas, which are also not a race, but I imagine everdev considers that racist too.
    - everdev 9y ago
      You can hate whatever pizza you want
      - nailer 9y ago
        Wouldn't that be racist against stuffed crust pizza? Why one idea and not the other? Are we allowed to dislike Christianity? Scientology? Libertarianism? Socialism? Capitalism? Cutting off dogs tails? If so, what makes Islam non dislikeable? Are you aware of the many ex Muslims and the harassment they receive? The people who've criticised Islam and been killed for it? Do you think declaring Islam non dislikeable helps this? Do you know anyone who is an ex black person or ex white person or ex asian? Why not?
        everdev 9y ago
coffee9 9y ago
If it's not in your self-interest what's the problem? They're certainly not immigrating for your benefit.

bluthru 9y ago

Social science has observed that race has real implications in a society. http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/... Are you saying that it's beyond the pale to even have a conversation about diversity and immigration policy? Are you assuming that an inflow of people from anywhere in the world is always good or neutral?

Houshalter 9y ago

First of all muslims aren't really a "race". Debates about race are completely irrelevant, they are criticizing islamic culture and religion. No one would care about someone mocking christian beliefs of culture. Second you are right. Beliefs about differences between races aren't political. They are scientific. These are scientific question that are completely beyond politics. Your morality or political opinions have no impact on the truth value of scientific claims. Censoring things does not make them untrue.

vk23 9y ago
The whole "islamic culture" thing is just a populist move. In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than anything else. Regarding the second part: Its obviously true that there is a scientific base to racial questions but discussions about it are rarely based on scientific research. Most of the time its a political / cultural conflict.
- Houshalter 9y ago
  >In the end they dont care if the refugees are islamic or christian (there are actually a lot of christian people in the arabic speaking region) Yes they do. Even Trump has supported increasing Christian refugees. Although religion is far from the only important factor to Western culture. >Also they are constantly talking about saving the german/north european culture/people. This is more about race and racism than anything else. I fail to see how wanting to preserve your race is racism. I like my own people and want to see them continue. It doesn't mean I literally hate and oppose other peoples. And I really do think you underestimate the cultural aspect of it. If they were brown skinned but otherwise culturally indistinguishable from Europeans, I think far fewer people would care. Labeling your opponents "racists" is just a convenient way of dismissing their concerns. >Its obviously true that there is a scientific base to racial questions but discussions about it are rarely based on scientific research. That's more of an issue that average people don't know how to do scientific research or think scientifically. I think they intuitively see things like "hey this group of people seems to do way worse" and "the mainstream oppression narrative doesn't really make sense." Without having the knowledge to dig up the actual statistics and figures to prove that.