13 ms·

Heh, I still can't believe they have "outlawed racism". That's like outlawing any other political opinion. How is that possible?

rubatuga 9y ago
Since it makes people fear for their lives.
- bluthru 9y ago
  Racism: can make people fear for their lives. Multiculturalism: can make people fear for their lives. People are only allowed to express their fears about one of those issues, and the government decides which of those fears is valid. This is despite the fact that both racism and multiculturalism can make people fear for their lives. That's utterly dystopian. In general with social media moderating, I'm very much against harassment but I believe people should be able to freely express their beliefs. If you're not following a person who you disagree with, what does it hurt?
  - rubatuga 9y ago
    I am curious how multiculturalism makes people fear for their life. Do you mean that a certain group of people may lose their lifestyle? Or do you actually mean life-death scenarios? I am trying quite hard, but I cannot think of any situation of multiculturalism that makes somebody fear their own death. Unless, if in fact you are talking about violence and crime from immigrants, you are free to express it. Furthermore, the principles of racism and multiculturalism are so different, that it’s interesting that you compare them. Almost always racism can be shown to be linked to violence and murder, but multicultralism is a policy that my country, Canada, has successfully modeled. I have never feared for my life. I think it is safe to say that although the implementation of multiculturalism policies may be flawed in some countries, multiculturalism itself doesn’t cause life-death scenarios.
    - bluthru 9y ago
      >Or do you actually mean life-death scenarios? https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-hom... >Unless, if in fact you are talking about violence and crime from immigrants, you are free to express it. You can usually express it, but the police in some areas might be afraid to act on it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rother... >Almost always racism can be shown to be linked to violence and murder If a nation says "we only want our people in our country" that would lead to violence and murder? How? >but multicultralism is a policy that my country, Canada, has successfully modeled Compared to what? Japan isn't multicultural and it has lower violent crime than Canada. I can't find an arrest breakdown by race for Canada, but here's NYC: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-5s21EXsAUjLzP.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-5s21EXsAUjLzP.jpg >multiculturalism itself doesn’t cause life-death scenarios "Not surprisingly, the length of a conflict and its casualty rate is 25 percent higher in areas where an ethnicity is divided by a national border as opposed to areas where ethnicities have a united homeland." http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/01/the-violent-legacy-of-africas-arbitrary-borders/ http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/01/the-violent-legacy-of-afr...
      - bluthru 9y ago
        Hmm... just downvotes and no replies to a comment with sources. Not exactly a high level of discourse.
Frondo 9y ago
Racism is not a political opinion. Political opinions are along the lines of "are my taxes too high" or "do we spend more on parks or on police". A belief in the inferiority of another race isn't political, it's something else. I don't know what, but discriminatory and bigoted beliefs don't belong in political discussions or any discussions about how we govern ourselves or organize society.
- aceofspad4s 9y ago
  Racism does not have to be about "the inferiority of another race". Racism can be "I don't think it's good for the economy that so many people from outside are coming" or "this culture is completely incompatible with ours and I don't want these people here". It's a pretty lax word. By outlawing "racism" you're outlawing discourse.
  - zeeZ 9y ago
    What you're describing sounds like xenophobia to me, not racism.
  - mithr 9y ago
    This is not true; as in, racism has a clear dictionary definition as "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." (Source: Oxford English Dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism)
    - gehwartzen 9y ago
      How is "race" defined?
  - blattimwind 9y ago
    Volksverhetzung is juristically exhaustively defined and none of your "racism can be" statements fulfill that definition. Volksverhetzung is not about "inciting hatred", which does not convey the concept. This article also isn't about Volksverhetzung, it's about the NetzDG, a new law.
everdev 9y ago
You don't have a right to threaten people. Racism had clear threatening implications.
- icebraining 9y ago
  So does communism, or really any other political ideology that implies an upheaval of people's lives, no?
  - everdev 9y ago
    Yeah, you shouldn't be allowed to threaten someone based on their political beliefs either. Or just don't threaten people period.
mithr 9y ago
Having an opinion is not, and cannot be outlawed. _Expressing_ these opinions out loud in a public forum, however, is a different matter. Hate speech (with its various definitions) is actually outlawed in many places around the world.
- aceofspad4s 9y ago
  What good is having an opinion if you can't express it or discuss it in an open forum?

rubatuga 9y ago

Since it makes people fear for their lives.

bluthru 9y ago
Racism: can make people fear for their lives. Multiculturalism: can make people fear for their lives. People are only allowed to express their fears about one of those issues, and the government decides which of those fears is valid. This is despite the fact that both racism and multiculturalism can make people fear for their lives. That's utterly dystopian. In general with social media moderating, I'm very much against harassment but I believe people should be able to freely express their beliefs. If you're not following a person who you disagree with, what does it hurt?
- rubatuga 9y ago
  I am curious how multiculturalism makes people fear for their life. Do you mean that a certain group of people may lose their lifestyle? Or do you actually mean life-death scenarios? I am trying quite hard, but I cannot think of any situation of multiculturalism that makes somebody fear their own death. Unless, if in fact you are talking about violence and crime from immigrants, you are free to express it. Furthermore, the principles of racism and multiculturalism are so different, that it’s interesting that you compare them. Almost always racism can be shown to be linked to violence and murder, but multicultralism is a policy that my country, Canada, has successfully modeled. I have never feared for my life. I think it is safe to say that although the implementation of multiculturalism policies may be flawed in some countries, multiculturalism itself doesn’t cause life-death scenarios.
  - bluthru 9y ago
    >Or do you actually mean life-death scenarios? https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-hom... >Unless, if in fact you are talking about violence and crime from immigrants, you are free to express it. You can usually express it, but the police in some areas might be afraid to act on it: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rotherham-child-sex-abuse-scandal-council-not-fit-for-purpose.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11391314/Rother... >Almost always racism can be shown to be linked to violence and murder If a nation says "we only want our people in our country" that would lead to violence and murder? How? >but multicultralism is a policy that my country, Canada, has successfully modeled Compared to what? Japan isn't multicultural and it has lower violent crime than Canada. I can't find an arrest breakdown by race for Canada, but here's NYC: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-5s21EXsAUjLzP.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-5s21EXsAUjLzP.jpg >multiculturalism itself doesn’t cause life-death scenarios "Not surprisingly, the length of a conflict and its casualty rate is 25 percent higher in areas where an ethnicity is divided by a national border as opposed to areas where ethnicities have a united homeland." http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/01/the-violent-legacy-of-africas-arbitrary-borders/ http://freakonomics.com/2011/12/01/the-violent-legacy-of-afr...
    - bluthru 9y ago
      Hmm... just downvotes and no replies to a comment with sources. Not exactly a high level of discourse.

Frondo 9y ago

Racism is not a political opinion. Political opinions are along the lines of "are my taxes too high" or "do we spend more on parks or on police". A belief in the inferiority of another race isn't political, it's something else. I don't know what, but discriminatory and bigoted beliefs don't belong in political discussions or any discussions about how we govern ourselves or organize society.

aceofspad4s 9y ago
Racism does not have to be about "the inferiority of another race". Racism can be "I don't think it's good for the economy that so many people from outside are coming" or "this culture is completely incompatible with ours and I don't want these people here". It's a pretty lax word. By outlawing "racism" you're outlawing discourse.
- zeeZ 9y ago
  What you're describing sounds like xenophobia to me, not racism.
- mithr 9y ago
  This is not true; as in, racism has a clear dictionary definition as "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior." (Source: Oxford English Dictionary https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism)
  - gehwartzen 9y ago
    How is "race" defined?
- blattimwind 9y ago
  Volksverhetzung is juristically exhaustively defined and none of your "racism can be" statements fulfill that definition. Volksverhetzung is not about "inciting hatred", which does not convey the concept. This article also isn't about Volksverhetzung, it's about the NetzDG, a new law.

everdev 9y ago

You don't have a right to threaten people. Racism had clear threatening implications.

icebraining 9y ago
So does communism, or really any other political ideology that implies an upheaval of people's lives, no?
- everdev 9y ago
  Yeah, you shouldn't be allowed to threaten someone based on their political beliefs either. Or just don't threaten people period.

mithr 9y ago

Having an opinion is not, and cannot be outlawed. _Expressing_ these opinions out loud in a public forum, however, is a different matter. Hate speech (with its various definitions) is actually outlawed in many places around the world.

aceofspad4s 9y ago
What good is having an opinion if you can't express it or discuss it in an open forum?