5 ms·

I wonder if I count as a nonprofit since I've spent way more in Apple developer fees than I have made from any of my apps?

justinhj 9y ago
haha same here. I was spending $100 a year just to run an app on my phone that I didn’t want to release
- jclardy 9y ago
  In case you don’t know, I believe Apple lets you do this for free now.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    Builds expire after 7 days though. If you forget to build it again you'll be stuck with a non-working app that crashes back to home screen as soon as you open it.
    - Eun 9y ago
      You could resign the app using Cydia Impactor. This avoids the rebuilding process, and keeps the app data on the device.
      - wlesieutre 9y ago
        Interesting, I'm not familiar with it. Still have to do this every week though? And I assume it only works over a USB connection, not over wifi?
        ValentineC 9y ago
        Yes, and yes.
        wlesieutre 9y ago
        Hm, I honestly don't plug my iOS devices into my computer much anymore, but I bet that process could be automated to run when the computer detects the device which would make it less painful. Thanks for the heads up!
    - mjcl 9y ago
      Oddly enough, not always. I have a just-for-me app working on my phone that I last built on December 3rd.
  - racl101 9y ago
    Cool. Since when? Honestly, this has been kind of a bummer for me when I've thought about trying mobile development.
    - sigjuice 9y ago
      Since Xcode 7. See “Free On-Device Development” here. https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/WhatsNewXcode/Chapters/xcode_7_0.html https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/De...
- zeep 9y ago
  wow, nice job milking your users Apple (getting someone to pay you for something that they made). I don't know why advanced users use Apple products...
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >wow, nice job milking your users Apple (getting someone to pay you for something that they made). I'm pretty sure they didn't make the iOS API, nor the iOS App Store, nor it's documentation, etc, all of which they're getting access to. >I don't know why advanced users use Apple products... Because they're not knee-jerk reacting to a company, but value the product. And most of them are not against "capitalism" and "profit" themselves either.
- cm2187 9y ago
  Although technically if you distribute an app to yourself only, you are supposed to use the enterprise license, which costs another $200 a year. Which is why the webapp route is the way to go unless you really need access to hardware.
ghostcluster 9y ago
I have the suspicion that this is likely the case for well over 90% of registered Apple developers. I also find it incredibly disingenuous every time Tim Cook comes out at WWDC and announces how many billions of dollars Apple has paid out to developers, when the vast majority of that money is going to big organizations skimming gambling style microtransactions through massive mobile games. It just feels like they're not being honest and selling luxury pickaxes to gold miners a decade after the California gold rush.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >when the vast majority of that money is going to big organizations skimming gambling style microtransactions through massive mobile games. Citation needed.
  - ghostcluster 9y ago
    Look at Top Grossing: https://www.appannie.com/en/apps/ios/top/ https://www.appannie.com/en/apps/ios/top/ You might be more charitable than me with the microtransaction models in games like Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, and Candy Crush, but you don't even need to drop 20 places to get Slotomania, then DoudbleDown Casino, Slots Casino, World Series of Poker, 8 Ball Pool.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      That's 5 out of 150 (free, paid, and grossing) or 4 out of 50 top grossing. And that''s including a solitaire and a pool app in it. Hardly "big organizations skimming gambling style microtransactions through massive mobile games" -- assuming even all those casino apps are from "big organizations" to begin with. "miniclip.com", for example, is not exactly EA.
      - ghostcluster 9y ago
        Those are the ones where there it is so blatant, that there is no argument, and this the top grossing of the platform. But if you include the monetization models of the most popular games such as Clash of Clans, Candy Crush, Kim Kardashian: Hollywood and the other games at the top, they are doing the same thing with a top layer of misderection. Drill down and their top sellers $99 IAPs of 'gems' or what have you in games aimed at children. That is where the bulk of the app money is coming from, and it's not new or a secret, it is just not emphasized by Apple. They've gotten rid of Top Grossing lists to obfuscate this on the platform, but here, look at Jack Black explaining the tactic of app store games years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4YSpF6d6w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4YSpF6d6w It hasn't changed.
nsgi 9y ago
But if you could do that you would then start making a profit, so would no longer qualify as nonprofit ;) If you're spending more in developer fees than you're making from the apps it might make sense to make them free/ad-free so you can qualify as non-profit. You would lose the possibility of turning a profit in the future, though. Edit: Just realised it's not available to individuals/non-profit businesses, which is a shame. If it was it could increase the number of free/ad-free apps and maybe the quality of the app store as a whole. Plus, who says one person can't run a non-profit. Surely they have to start somewhere like any other organisation?
- icebraining 9y ago
  who says one person can't run a non-profit I'm guessing: the IRS. A non-profit is a specific type of entity, not a business model.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    That's irrelevant as to whether one person can run it. Like an LLC -- one person can run one, it doesn't take 2.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Right, but an LLC is still a separate entity. nsgi's question, as far as I understood it, is why an individual can't be a non-profit without incorporating it.
      - coldtea 9y ago
        A, that's true then. A non-profit is all about being registered as one (incorporating etc) and not about intentions (or for that matter, not being into it for profit).
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > If you're spending more in developer fees than you're making from the apps it might make sense to make them free/ad-free so you can qualify as non-profit. That's not how you form a non-profit [0]; not deriving revenue from products is neither necessary nor sufficient to establish non-profit status. > Plus, who says one person can't run a non-profit One person can run a non-profit, but it still probably needs to be incorporated as a separate legal entity, and may (in some states) need a three-member board. > Surely they have to start somewhere like any other organisation Yes, they have to start somewhere, but that “somewhere”, in some jurisdictions, involves more than one person overseeing operations. [0] as a starting point, see: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/form-nonprofit-eight-steps-29484.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/form-nonprofit-eight...
racl101 9y ago
BA DUM TSCHH!!!
feelin_googley 9y ago
I wonder how much the company really needs those fees.
- jaxondu 9y ago
  The company gives the reason of membership fee as a way to deter low quality apps.
vlucas 9y ago
I have made a few apps in my time, and have easily made tens of... dollars. It's a tough game.

justinhj 9y ago

haha same here. I was spending $100 a year just to run an app on my phone that I didn’t want to release

jclardy 9y ago
In case you don’t know, I believe Apple lets you do this for free now.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  Builds expire after 7 days though. If you forget to build it again you'll be stuck with a non-working app that crashes back to home screen as soon as you open it.
  - Eun 9y ago
    You could resign the app using Cydia Impactor. This avoids the rebuilding process, and keeps the app data on the device.
    - wlesieutre 9y ago
      Interesting, I'm not familiar with it. Still have to do this every week though? And I assume it only works over a USB connection, not over wifi?
      - ValentineC 9y ago
        Yes, and yes.
        wlesieutre 9y ago
        Hm, I honestly don't plug my iOS devices into my computer much anymore, but I bet that process could be automated to run when the computer detects the device which would make it less painful. Thanks for the heads up!
  - mjcl 9y ago
    Oddly enough, not always. I have a just-for-me app working on my phone that I last built on December 3rd.
- racl101 9y ago
  Cool. Since when? Honestly, this has been kind of a bummer for me when I've thought about trying mobile development.
  - sigjuice 9y ago
    Since Xcode 7. See “Free On-Device Development” here. https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/WhatsNewXcode/Chapters/xcode_7_0.html https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/De...
zeep 9y ago
wow, nice job milking your users Apple (getting someone to pay you for something that they made). I don't know why advanced users use Apple products...
- coldtea 9y ago
  >wow, nice job milking your users Apple (getting someone to pay you for something that they made). I'm pretty sure they didn't make the iOS API, nor the iOS App Store, nor it's documentation, etc, all of which they're getting access to. >I don't know why advanced users use Apple products... Because they're not knee-jerk reacting to a company, but value the product. And most of them are not against "capitalism" and "profit" themselves either.
cm2187 9y ago
Although technically if you distribute an app to yourself only, you are supposed to use the enterprise license, which costs another $200 a year. Which is why the webapp route is the way to go unless you really need access to hardware.

ghostcluster 9y ago

I have the suspicion that this is likely the case for well over 90% of registered Apple developers. I also find it incredibly disingenuous every time Tim Cook comes out at WWDC and announces how many billions of dollars Apple has paid out to developers, when the vast majority of that money is going to big organizations skimming gambling style microtransactions through massive mobile games. It just feels like they're not being honest and selling luxury pickaxes to gold miners a decade after the California gold rush.

coldtea 9y ago
>when the vast majority of that money is going to big organizations skimming gambling style microtransactions through massive mobile games. Citation needed.
- ghostcluster 9y ago
  Look at Top Grossing: https://www.appannie.com/en/apps/ios/top/ https://www.appannie.com/en/apps/ios/top/ You might be more charitable than me with the microtransaction models in games like Clash of Clans, Clash Royale, and Candy Crush, but you don't even need to drop 20 places to get Slotomania, then DoudbleDown Casino, Slots Casino, World Series of Poker, 8 Ball Pool.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    That's 5 out of 150 (free, paid, and grossing) or 4 out of 50 top grossing. And that''s including a solitaire and a pool app in it. Hardly "big organizations skimming gambling style microtransactions through massive mobile games" -- assuming even all those casino apps are from "big organizations" to begin with. "miniclip.com", for example, is not exactly EA.
    - ghostcluster 9y ago
      Those are the ones where there it is so blatant, that there is no argument, and this the top grossing of the platform. But if you include the monetization models of the most popular games such as Clash of Clans, Candy Crush, Kim Kardashian: Hollywood and the other games at the top, they are doing the same thing with a top layer of misderection. Drill down and their top sellers $99 IAPs of 'gems' or what have you in games aimed at children. That is where the bulk of the app money is coming from, and it's not new or a secret, it is just not emphasized by Apple. They've gotten rid of Top Grossing lists to obfuscate this on the platform, but here, look at Jack Black explaining the tactic of app store games years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4YSpF6d6w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y4YSpF6d6w It hasn't changed.

nsgi 9y ago

But if you could do that you would then start making a profit, so would no longer qualify as nonprofit ;) If you're spending more in developer fees than you're making from the apps it might make sense to make them free/ad-free so you can qualify as non-profit. You would lose the possibility of turning a profit in the future, though. Edit: Just realised it's not available to individuals/non-profit businesses, which is a shame. If it was it could increase the number of free/ad-free apps and maybe the quality of the app store as a whole. Plus, who says one person can't run a non-profit. Surely they have to start somewhere like any other organisation?

icebraining 9y ago
who says one person can't run a non-profit I'm guessing: the IRS. A non-profit is a specific type of entity, not a business model.
- coldtea 9y ago
  That's irrelevant as to whether one person can run it. Like an LLC -- one person can run one, it doesn't take 2.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Right, but an LLC is still a separate entity. nsgi's question, as far as I understood it, is why an individual can't be a non-profit without incorporating it.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      A, that's true then. A non-profit is all about being registered as one (incorporating etc) and not about intentions (or for that matter, not being into it for profit).
dragonwriter 9y ago
> If you're spending more in developer fees than you're making from the apps it might make sense to make them free/ad-free so you can qualify as non-profit. That's not how you form a non-profit [0]; not deriving revenue from products is neither necessary nor sufficient to establish non-profit status. > Plus, who says one person can't run a non-profit One person can run a non-profit, but it still probably needs to be incorporated as a separate legal entity, and may (in some states) need a three-member board. > Surely they have to start somewhere like any other organisation Yes, they have to start somewhere, but that “somewhere”, in some jurisdictions, involves more than one person overseeing operations. [0] as a starting point, see: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/form-nonprofit-eight-steps-29484.html https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/form-nonprofit-eight...

racl101 9y ago

BA DUM TSCHH!!!

feelin_googley 9y ago

I wonder how much the company really needs those fees.

jaxondu 9y ago
The company gives the reason of membership fee as a way to deter low quality apps.

vlucas 9y ago

I have made a few apps in my time, and have easily made tens of... dollars. It's a tough game.