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I was talking about this with some co-workers the other day. This article focuses on salary, but consider that sometimes what you want may be extra vacation ti
by giarc 9y ago
I was talking about this with some co-workers the other day. This article focuses on salary, but consider that sometimes what you want may be extra vacation time or personal days. They may be more acceptable to some managers.
- switch007 9y agoThat feels like a consolation prize. And it does not seem like good currency when you change jobs (especially for companies that demand current salary information).
- nicoburns 9y agoReally? I'd far prefer an extra 10 days holiday over a little higher pay. More difficult to get though I suspect.
- maxxxxx 9y agoI have tried without success. HR didn't even understand the idea.
- switch007 9y agoYes I guess it's highly subjective. And being from the UK where we have 28 days by law, for me personally, each extra day is probably worth less in comparison
- ohjeez 9y agoI was told, years ago, that when you are negotiating salary for a new job, and they say, "Sorry, $x is the most we can offer," you should ask for another week of vacation. At that point it seems (to them) cheap to say No, so you have a relatively good chance of getting it. I'd think it would apply equally to asking for a raise, though I haven't tried it.
- BeetleB 9y agoThis is the "standard" advice. However, I recently heard something that does the exact opposite. Make a list of nontangibles. As a reference, look up the benefits people get (by law) in countries like Sweden, France, Denmark, etc. Stuff like minimum 4-5 weeks vacation, 6 months paid medical leave when you have a kid, etc. Then ask for one or two of them. Don't be a jerk about it. Just say it would be really important for you to have it. Mildly make it a problematic point (i.e. don't say "yes" to the offer - just keep asking). They most likely are not going to give you them (in the US). Since these are hard to give, but not unreasonable (so many countries give them), they will not get offended. After a few back and forths, they may come to you and say "Look, I'm sorry we cannot give you X, but would you be willing to accept an increase in pay as a substitute?" So don't ask for a salary and settle for vacation (unless that's what you really want). Ask for a lot of vacation, and settle for more money.
- ohjeez 9y agoThat sounds like a win either way!
- achompas 9y agoI don't agree. If you want to negotiate more PTO at your new job, it's easy to point at your current PTO arrangement and have them match.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- el_benhameen 9y agoI don't necessarily disagree, but two small counter points: 1. It's now illegal in California for employers to ask for salary history. 2. Vacation days, if they're not unlimited, are compensation and must be paid out if you leave. That's not base salary with which you can negotiate a higher offer at another company, but it is money.
- aknosis 9y ago#2 is not entirely true. It appears that in the U.S this is a state law that can vary by state. In Arizona it seems that they leave this up to the employer which means obviously they will choose not to pay out that balance.
- PenguinCoder 9y ago#2 is why all the 'trendy' companies are starting to give out "unlimited PTO".
- el_benhameen 9y agoYeah, I've wondered (figured) if that's part of the motivation. That and they can just shame people into taking none. Not a fan unless the company is super trustworthy, which is hard to gauge.
- mackey 9y agoTotally, even within the same company it can vary. I worked some place where engineering was really good about encouraging people to take time off and lots of upper management set a good example with unlimited PTO. However, I had heard that sales and consulting weren't as encouraged.
- saryant 9y agoIt can work well, but I think it comes down more to the your manager/org than the overall company (assuming we're talking about a large enough company for there to be disparate orgs). We have unlimited PTO and I think I took 7-8ish weeks last year—including spending pretty much all of November in New Zealand. Nobody had an issue with it. OTOH, I know of people in the company who struggle to take more than two weeks. During my last job search I would point-blank ask the hiring manager how much PTO they and their reports took in the last year.
- JustSomeNobody 9y agoDon't give them current salary. If they won't hire you, you're better off. Instead, add a (reasonable) raise to your current salary, then add another X percentage just in case you don't get a raise for a couple years. Hand the hiring company that figure. Edit for clarity
- giarc 9y agoI would say that unless you are underpaid for your position, then extra time off is the prize. Most research shows that time is happiness, not money. Having extra time off to spend with family/friends is what is going to make you happy in life. An extra $10K/year isn't going to make a difference if you don't have time to spend it.
- foreigner 9y agoDepends on the company. At giant megacorps your manager probably has much more flexibility on your salary than they do on non-standard benefits.
- GordonS 9y agoAt some giant mega-corps. Others operate a 'grade' system, where there is a hard limit on salary for each grade, and you will need to be promoted before a raise is possible.
- btbuildem 9y agoOne vacation day translates roughly to a 2% raise. I've been looking at this recently - I'm overdue for a raise, and I might just ask for Freedom Fridays instead of a salary bump.
- btbuildem 9y agoOops meant "one week of vacation"