7 ms·

Not only is he the father of Mazda's rotary engine, he also recommended as president that Mazda build the Miata, arguably the best two seater sports car ever ma

Not only is he the father of Mazda's rotary engine, he also recommended as president that Mazda build the Miata, arguably the best two seater sports car ever made. The Miata probably also kept Mazda in the spotlight and alive through the 90s. Mazda is an interesting car company. Example: they have 0 electric or hybrid cars and don't have plans to make any afaik. They have a new 'X-Active' gasoline engine that also runs like a diesel at times to gain efficiency and power (https://jalopnik.com/mazdas-upcoming-skyactive-x-compression-ignition-engine-1797643172 https://jalopnik.com/mazdas-upcoming-skyactive-x-compression...). I'm not sure it's a great idea to continue working on gasoline engine technology considering the industry and market, but it is impressive engineering. They've also managed to keep the Mazda Miata at nearly the same weight (only 300lbs more than the original) and size (3 inches wider, 1 inch shorter) after over 20 years of safety and convenience improvements. I can't think of any other car model that's done that. Somehow this small car company always punches above its weight, which is impressive.

csours 9y ago
I would call the Miata the most successful "driver's car". Other sports cars have better numbers and do better at the track, but the Miata is darn fun to drive.
- rdoherty 9y ago
  I agree, they never are the fastest, but they know how to make a perfectly balanced in all factors, enjoyable driver's car. Source: I race cars and have driven a Miata on the track.
tinbad 9y ago
And not just the Miata! Almost every Mazda is the best handler in its class. It’s somewhat tragic they don’t sell as well as they should. They are objectively better in many ways. It’s one of those that having an objectively superior product is not a guarantee to perform well in the market. I truly hope Mazda will be around for many decades to come.
- busterarm 9y ago
  The truth is that most car buyers do not want "objectively better". They want a mobile appliance that they spend no effort to maintain and won't take a significant loss on the resale. The want the Toyota Corolla (now Camry these days). For most people it is the correct buying decision, though driving a Mazda may convert them.
  - haecceity 9y ago
    I'm looking to buy a new car. How do you measure goodness of a model of car objectively?
    - bovermyer 9y ago
      There are way too many factors for there to be any single objective way to measure quality of a vehicle. Personally, I look for an aggressive appearance, good utility in bad weather, and (now) plenty of cargo space. I'm less concerned about safety and reliability, though obviously I don't want to be driving a deathtrap with loads of maintenance costs. To sanity-check the latter, I look at https://www.carcomplaints.com/ https://www.carcomplaints.com/ .
      - mikepurvis 9y ago
        Out of curiosity, what drives the "plenty of cargo space" requirement? We're a family with three kids and bought a 6-seat Mazda 5 this year as our only car, on the theory that it has almost no trunk space, but mostly we're just bombing around town doing grocery runs anyway. In cases of cargo moving (dump dropoff, IKEA pickup, Home Depot), it's typically adult-only trips, so it's really just vacation that's the case where we need a full load of both passengers and cargo. Since vacation is only a few times a year, we figured we'd optimize for the common case and plan to rent a larger van for those instances if necessary, or look at other alternatives, such as a roof box, trailer, whatever.
        bovermyer 9y ago
jimnotgym 9y ago
For non-US readers like me, the Miata is what we know as the MX-5. I just had to look it up! Like a classic British sports-car, but affordable, reliable and still in production.
- justin66 9y ago
  > Like a classic British sports-car, but affordable, reliable and still in production. For those who aren't aware, Mazda famously bought some Lotus Elans (and some other British classics) and drove them, took them apart, and so on to help them capture the magic. They really did succeed. Ironically, they were a lot more successful than Lotus was when they made their new Elan which shared a name with the original, and came out the same year as the first Miata.
- rdoherty 9y ago
  IIRC the Miata/MX-5 was based upon the idea of the classic British sports car :)
- Mithaldu 9y ago
  When mentioning the Miata you probably also want to mention this review that neatly summarizes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1kuo6xkbE&t=139s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1kuo6xkbE&t=139s
- kikimaru 9y ago
  And for importers, it's the Mazda Eunos.
pwaai 9y ago
Having to stop production because you just got nuked and then turning around to become a major car manufacturer within a generation is remarkable. Too bad the rotary engine never was reliable, practical or efficient but man are they fun cars. I fondly remember the RX-8 in 2004 my friend got for his birthday, that unique wailing rotary sound and go kart like experience is still in the back of my mind. RX-7 still has a ton of demand and held its value if not appreciated for spot clean low mileage cars. I prefer the older generation RX-7 but most of it is limited to Gran Turismo 2 experience.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  I had an RX-7 GSL-SE first gen. I never got it working well enough to race though. Damn vacuum tubes everywhere. I ended up selling it after University to some dude who wanted to put a V8 in it. :(
- ansible 9y ago
  ... spot clean low mileage cars ... Because the rotary engine has serious wear issues above 100K miles, even with proper maintenance. Which is a shame, really, because piston engines can double or triple that before running into the same sorts of problems (if well maintained).
  - pkroll 9y ago
    Is that inherent, or part of having so much more research and experience with pistons? (Will we ever know?)
    - ohazi 9y ago
      It's somewhat inherent to the design. In a piston engine, the cylinder walls and the sides of the piston form the seal that keeps the combustion contained. You have a lot of metal-oil-metal surface area to work with here, so it's relatively easy to get a good seal. On a rotary engine, you have comparatively thin apex seals. These wear out quickly, and make it more difficult to get a good seal. Additionally, combustion always happens on the same side of the engine housing, so you tend to get warping, which also makes the sealing problems worse. Reciprocating engines definitely have their own problems though (e.g. valves), and here I think you can safely argue that our longer history with them has helped a lot.
brazzledazzle 9y ago
I read that they plan to introduce an electric in 2019 and use a rotary engine as a range extender. Apparently rotary engines startup much quieter which makes it less jarring when they turn on and off while driving.
bch 9y ago
> I can't think of any other car model that's done that. The VW beetle wants to have a talk with you. :)
faultyerwin 9y ago
> They have a new 'X-Active' gasoline engine that also runs like a diesel at times to gain efficiency and power And in terms of performance and economy matches a "classical" solution nowadays (direct injection + turbo): https://goo.gl/YWZs6v https://goo.gl/YWZs6v, https://goo.gl/zckvun https://goo.gl/zckvun > Somehow this small car company always punches above its weight, which is impressive. Mazdas look a little bit differently but in terms of technology there is nothing impressive about them.
JurgenKlein 9y ago
Most ford cars use engine designs from Mazda, including the mustangs. I'm sure they do this for some of the other major auto manufacturers.
stinkytaco 9y ago
> he also recommended as president that Mazda build the Miata, arguably the best two seater sports car ever made. The BMW Z3 would like to have a word. (I was actually going to say the 911, but not being super familiar I had to look it up and it does have a rear seat. Who knew?) But Mazda has always been a great innovator, especially for the cost. They are the last enthusiast car brand available for the average buyer.
- justin66 9y ago
  Nobody is going to yell at you for calling the 911 a sports car (and they don't all have rear seats, I assure you). They'll regard you as an eccentric if your choice for best sports car has the engine in entirely the wrong place, however... The Z3 is an interesting comparison. Inexpensiveness was part of the British formula that Mazda preserved, and it's not present with something like a Z3. I guess whether you regard that as important is a question of taste, or politics.
  - stinkytaco 9y ago
    I'd watch yourself in certain parts of the Internet or certain meet-ups if you throw those words around about the 911. I was responding mostly to the absolute statement "best two seater sports car ever made". I think the Miata is a great car, probably the best intro sports car if you are into grassroots racing or similar hobbyist activities, but I'd take the Z3 over it for most purposes.
    - King-Aaron 9y ago
      You're a BMW enthusiast, though.. Of course you'd choose the Z3, haha. But they really aren't in the same class. Z3's are tourers, not sports cars per se'. But then again, MX-5's are roadsters, not sports cars in the practical sense. They don't exist in the same market bracket and fulfil entirely different ownership purposes :) My personal opinion however, after finally settling on a NA mx-5 for my weekend race car, is that the mx-5 is honestly one of the best bang-for-buck circuit cars you can get. With only ~$10k invested in mine, it happily outpaces cars 6-10x the value.
mikekchar 9y ago
Mazda and Toyota have created a joint venture to work on electric vehicles [0]. Not sure if they plan to sell cars under the new brand, or if it's a technology company only. I suspect the latter. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-electric-vehicles/toyota-to-form-electric-car-technology-venture-with-mazda-idUSKCN1C3071 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-electric-vehicles/...
kenhwang 9y ago
Mazda has a plan for electric, they have a tech sharing agreement with Toyota. Mazda gets access to the most widely deployed electric powertrain (Priuses), and Toyota gets access to bleeding edge Mazda gasoline engines to replace their own one-gen-behind with no successor gasoline engine. Win-win for both.
- ChristianGeek 9y ago
  “Win-win for both” is redundant. (25 years after working as an editor and I’m still “that guy.”)
sytelus 9y ago
I have owned RX-8 which was at the time perhaps only rotary engine car. Here's the thing... its cool engine and makes that great fun noise BUT its very inefficient + strictly requires premium gas and has a very short life. Ours was under warranty until 50K miles and engine died out exactly then. While searching the forums it appeared that this was rather common issue. So cost of the car alone was 0.5 cents per every mile driven, + expensive gas + maintenance.
tyh 9y ago
Short little read describing the design philosophy behind miata. https://insidemazda.mazdausa.com/the-mazda-way/mazda-spirit/jinba-ittai/ https://insidemazda.mazdausa.com/the-mazda-way/mazda-spirit/...

csours 9y ago

I would call the Miata the most successful "driver's car". Other sports cars have better numbers and do better at the track, but the Miata is darn fun to drive.

rdoherty 9y ago
I agree, they never are the fastest, but they know how to make a perfectly balanced in all factors, enjoyable driver's car. Source: I race cars and have driven a Miata on the track.

tinbad 9y ago

And not just the Miata! Almost every Mazda is the best handler in its class. It’s somewhat tragic they don’t sell as well as they should. They are objectively better in many ways. It’s one of those that having an objectively superior product is not a guarantee to perform well in the market. I truly hope Mazda will be around for many decades to come.

busterarm 9y ago
The truth is that most car buyers do not want "objectively better". They want a mobile appliance that they spend no effort to maintain and won't take a significant loss on the resale. The want the Toyota Corolla (now Camry these days). For most people it is the correct buying decision, though driving a Mazda may convert them.
- haecceity 9y ago
  I'm looking to buy a new car. How do you measure goodness of a model of car objectively?
  - bovermyer 9y ago
    There are way too many factors for there to be any single objective way to measure quality of a vehicle. Personally, I look for an aggressive appearance, good utility in bad weather, and (now) plenty of cargo space. I'm less concerned about safety and reliability, though obviously I don't want to be driving a deathtrap with loads of maintenance costs. To sanity-check the latter, I look at https://www.carcomplaints.com/ https://www.carcomplaints.com/ .
    - mikepurvis 9y ago
      Out of curiosity, what drives the "plenty of cargo space" requirement? We're a family with three kids and bought a 6-seat Mazda 5 this year as our only car, on the theory that it has almost no trunk space, but mostly we're just bombing around town doing grocery runs anyway. In cases of cargo moving (dump dropoff, IKEA pickup, Home Depot), it's typically adult-only trips, so it's really just vacation that's the case where we need a full load of both passengers and cargo. Since vacation is only a few times a year, we figured we'd optimize for the common case and plan to rent a larger van for those instances if necessary, or look at other alternatives, such as a roof box, trailer, whatever.
      - bovermyer 9y ago

jimnotgym 9y ago

For non-US readers like me, the Miata is what we know as the MX-5. I just had to look it up! Like a classic British sports-car, but affordable, reliable and still in production.

justin66 9y ago
> Like a classic British sports-car, but affordable, reliable and still in production. For those who aren't aware, Mazda famously bought some Lotus Elans (and some other British classics) and drove them, took them apart, and so on to help them capture the magic. They really did succeed. Ironically, they were a lot more successful than Lotus was when they made their new Elan which shared a name with the original, and came out the same year as the first Miata.
rdoherty 9y ago
IIRC the Miata/MX-5 was based upon the idea of the classic British sports car :)
Mithaldu 9y ago
When mentioning the Miata you probably also want to mention this review that neatly summarizes it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1kuo6xkbE&t=139s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp1kuo6xkbE&t=139s
kikimaru 9y ago
And for importers, it's the Mazda Eunos.

pwaai 9y ago

Having to stop production because you just got nuked and then turning around to become a major car manufacturer within a generation is remarkable. Too bad the rotary engine never was reliable, practical or efficient but man are they fun cars. I fondly remember the RX-8 in 2004 my friend got for his birthday, that unique wailing rotary sound and go kart like experience is still in the back of my mind. RX-7 still has a ton of demand and held its value if not appreciated for spot clean low mileage cars. I prefer the older generation RX-7 but most of it is limited to Gran Turismo 2 experience.

djsumdog 9y ago
I had an RX-7 GSL-SE first gen. I never got it working well enough to race though. Damn vacuum tubes everywhere. I ended up selling it after University to some dude who wanted to put a V8 in it. :(
ansible 9y ago
... spot clean low mileage cars ... Because the rotary engine has serious wear issues above 100K miles, even with proper maintenance. Which is a shame, really, because piston engines can double or triple that before running into the same sorts of problems (if well maintained).
- pkroll 9y ago
  Is that inherent, or part of having so much more research and experience with pistons? (Will we ever know?)
  - ohazi 9y ago
    It's somewhat inherent to the design. In a piston engine, the cylinder walls and the sides of the piston form the seal that keeps the combustion contained. You have a lot of metal-oil-metal surface area to work with here, so it's relatively easy to get a good seal. On a rotary engine, you have comparatively thin apex seals. These wear out quickly, and make it more difficult to get a good seal. Additionally, combustion always happens on the same side of the engine housing, so you tend to get warping, which also makes the sealing problems worse. Reciprocating engines definitely have their own problems though (e.g. valves), and here I think you can safely argue that our longer history with them has helped a lot.

brazzledazzle 9y ago

I read that they plan to introduce an electric in 2019 and use a rotary engine as a range extender. Apparently rotary engines startup much quieter which makes it less jarring when they turn on and off while driving.

bch 9y ago

> I can't think of any other car model that's done that. The VW beetle wants to have a talk with you. :)

faultyerwin 9y ago

> They have a new 'X-Active' gasoline engine that also runs like a diesel at times to gain efficiency and power And in terms of performance and economy matches a "classical" solution nowadays (direct injection + turbo): https://goo.gl/YWZs6v https://goo.gl/YWZs6v, https://goo.gl/zckvun https://goo.gl/zckvun > Somehow this small car company always punches above its weight, which is impressive. Mazdas look a little bit differently but in terms of technology there is nothing impressive about them.

JurgenKlein 9y ago

Most ford cars use engine designs from Mazda, including the mustangs. I'm sure they do this for some of the other major auto manufacturers.

stinkytaco 9y ago

> he also recommended as president that Mazda build the Miata, arguably the best two seater sports car ever made. The BMW Z3 would like to have a word. (I was actually going to say the 911, but not being super familiar I had to look it up and it does have a rear seat. Who knew?) But Mazda has always been a great innovator, especially for the cost. They are the last enthusiast car brand available for the average buyer.

justin66 9y ago
Nobody is going to yell at you for calling the 911 a sports car (and they don't all have rear seats, I assure you). They'll regard you as an eccentric if your choice for best sports car has the engine in entirely the wrong place, however... The Z3 is an interesting comparison. Inexpensiveness was part of the British formula that Mazda preserved, and it's not present with something like a Z3. I guess whether you regard that as important is a question of taste, or politics.
- stinkytaco 9y ago
  I'd watch yourself in certain parts of the Internet or certain meet-ups if you throw those words around about the 911. I was responding mostly to the absolute statement "best two seater sports car ever made". I think the Miata is a great car, probably the best intro sports car if you are into grassroots racing or similar hobbyist activities, but I'd take the Z3 over it for most purposes.
  - King-Aaron 9y ago
    You're a BMW enthusiast, though.. Of course you'd choose the Z3, haha. But they really aren't in the same class. Z3's are tourers, not sports cars per se'. But then again, MX-5's are roadsters, not sports cars in the practical sense. They don't exist in the same market bracket and fulfil entirely different ownership purposes :) My personal opinion however, after finally settling on a NA mx-5 for my weekend race car, is that the mx-5 is honestly one of the best bang-for-buck circuit cars you can get. With only ~$10k invested in mine, it happily outpaces cars 6-10x the value.

mikekchar 9y ago

Mazda and Toyota have created a joint venture to work on electric vehicles [0]. Not sure if they plan to sell cars under the new brand, or if it's a technology company only. I suspect the latter. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-electric-vehicles/toyota-to-form-electric-car-technology-venture-with-mazda-idUSKCN1C3071 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyota-electric-vehicles/...

kenhwang 9y ago

Mazda has a plan for electric, they have a tech sharing agreement with Toyota. Mazda gets access to the most widely deployed electric powertrain (Priuses), and Toyota gets access to bleeding edge Mazda gasoline engines to replace their own one-gen-behind with no successor gasoline engine. Win-win for both.

ChristianGeek 9y ago
“Win-win for both” is redundant. (25 years after working as an editor and I’m still “that guy.”)

sytelus 9y ago

I have owned RX-8 which was at the time perhaps only rotary engine car. Here's the thing... its cool engine and makes that great fun noise BUT its very inefficient + strictly requires premium gas and has a very short life. Ours was under warranty until 50K miles and engine died out exactly then. While searching the forums it appeared that this was rather common issue. So cost of the car alone was 0.5 cents per every mile driven, + expensive gas + maintenance.

tyh 9y ago

Short little read describing the design philosophy behind miata. https://insidemazda.mazdausa.com/the-mazda-way/mazda-spirit/jinba-ittai/ https://insidemazda.mazdausa.com/the-mazda-way/mazda-spirit/...