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If your parents had eliminated screens when you were very young (including theirs) save maybe one publicly-placed crappy terminal for wikipedia or looking up bu

by ashark 9y ago

If your parents had eliminated screens when you were very young (including theirs) save maybe one publicly-placed crappy terminal for wikipedia or looking up business hours or maps or learning you some programming or whatever, but loosened the reigns on hang-outs and travel, do you think you'd have still felt isolated because all your friends were still online most of the time? Asking as a parent with three young kids who's seeing practically no benefit to ubiquitous screens at this point, and lots of bad things about them, and trying to figure out how to navigate this brave new world while screwing these kids up as little as possible.

quadrangle 9y ago
I can say this: you aren't alone! I'm in the exact same boat. Ironically, if we can coordinate those of us who "get it" on this issue, maybe we can organize at least some spaces and communities where kids can interact free of screens and have friends etc. About the most important org any parent should know about and support: http://commercialfreechildhood.org/ http://commercialfreechildhood.org/
kenning 9y ago
Some research suggests excessive restriction on screen use may be worse, and it's not abnormal for boys to use devices more than girls http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-screen-time-guidelines-too-restrictive-according-new-research http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-scree...
- gowld 9y ago
  The article drums that line, but the research cited says that screen time is irrelevant. They also didn't measure screen time, they relied on parents self-reporting which may be very high or low (reflecting parental self-image,not actual screen time). And the research didn't look at long-term effects, only short-term. And it waved off that high screen time may be merely correlated to poverty and unengaged parenting, not literally strictly screen time. The research isn't an endorsement to let little kids stare at tablets all day.
  - kenning 9y ago
    Theres thousands of studies on this kind of thing, and you could find one to support any belief. Here's a list of studies with several different findings: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/is-video-gaming-bad-for-you-the-science-for-and-against/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/is-video-gaming-... Here's another, with some contradictory findings: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/08/08/338855459/playing-video-games-can-help-or-hurt-depending-on-who-you-ask https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/08/08/3388554... One interesting study in that second set actually said that a small amount of gaming per day, less than an hour, was beneficial -- better than not at all.
losteverything 9y ago
You will screw up your kids just like your parents screwed you up.... You just don't know how yet. But it isn't really screwed up... It is called parenting. Then when u become a grandparent it begins to totally make sense....we all screw up our kids...teaching thwm how to recover is the real deal
- ashark 9y ago
  Yeah, I get that, but there's screwed up and there's screwed up, ya know? Sure you can be in the top 50% of parents by just not actively trying to screw them up, but I'd like to do better than that, within reason, and tech/screens/Web seem to me like pretty big things worthy of a little attention and care, especially as they get older. Finding something like a least-harm/most-benefit way to fit that into our home lives is probably worth spending some thought on.
  - losteverything 9y ago
    My kid tells us we did her/him a big disservice by just who were were: an in love couple with a good marriage. She/he tells us ahe/he was so unprepared for relationships and the knowledge that others' sid not come from our style home (happy marriage filled with love, imo) Now how does one predict that??? Introduce my kids to broken marriages?
    - bastijn 9y ago
      Offtopic: are we now so gender neutral we even cannot address our own kid as he or she? Or did you do this on purpose to hide the gender of your kid as part of your privacy? No flame intended. Honest question. Never thought about the gender of my kids being a privacy thing. Ontopic: As a parent I (we) try not to restrain things like screen use. Instead we actively promote all other forms of spending time we prefer more. This means I usually enter the room before my kids get up and put the devices away and put other toys in sight. My wife is a montessori (method) teacher which makes her quite skilled at knowing which kind of toys/lessons our kids like at what time in their life. Meaning each couple of weeks the things we prepare change. Result is they usually first pick a bit of everything in plain sight and only after, at the end of day, ask for a device. We didn’t tell them not to, it is just they really like their puzzles, painting, and what have you. In real life preparing means putting things in sight instead of in a closet and one of us being downstairs before the kids is normal as well. Not much effort there. Disclaimer: my oldest is only 3 right now. Older kids may be entirely different though I believe promoting better options has a better effect than restraining the negative ones.
Analemma_ 9y ago
Keep in mind that if the OP is 21, then "when s/he was very young" would've been circa 2000. That was before smartphones or even Wi-Fi, where you pretty much had to be seated at a desk to use a computer, which is very different from the situation now. This is an epidemic that snuck up on us.
- soperj 9y ago
  We had a laptop with windows 95 on it. Just because you weren't on the internet, didn't mean you couldn't use a computer...there were actually lots of things that you would do without a connection then.
  - Analemma_ 9y ago
    That's not really what I meant. Of course there were computers then. What I mean is that "ubiquitous screens and connectivity" wasn't yet a thing, and it's a phenomenon that crept up on us, so it's a little unfair to blame parents of a kid born ~1997 for not locking down screen time. We didn't know that was really a problem (at least, a problem distinct from "too much TV") until just a few years ago.
    - soperj 9y ago
      I was born in 83. I'd definitely say I had too much screen time as a kid. I was generally either on a computer or watching tv most of the time that I wasn't playing hockey or at school (or doing homework), I could still play gameboy on the way to the rink. I think I actually have less screen time now and I'm a programmer, and do programming at home on the side after work as well. Mostly I cut out the tv watching, since it seems like such a waste of time. I don't think it's that screentime itself that's such a problem, but the content, and mindlessness of some stuff. I'm happy to let my 5 year old watch Cosmos with me, Paw Patrol on the other hand makes the kid go crazy.
aaroninsf 9y ago
Kids approaching 7 and 10 watch some movies/vetted series online, only recently got Kindle tablets which they are literally only allowed to use on long (3 hr+) transits, never at home. No TV or analog in house. I am now torn as the older kid is at a prime age to introduce programming... ...but the benefits we see daily from no-screen childhood are to our biased eyes overwhelming. Our kids spend all their free time engaged in imaginative play much of it collaborative, and manipulating physical objects, and when we can get out, outside. Their ability to sit in a room with no screen and make a world seems pretty rare, compared to peers who were given ipads or whatever years ago. But I also worry, how do we also make sure they are literate and savvy. I fear that as soon if the programming bug bites it will be the End...
- ashark 9y ago
  Maybe offline or rarely-online screens would work? An RPi2 (no wifi) stuck in some corner, running Linux? That kind of thing. I think the Web's far and away the most dangerous part of screens. I grew up mostly with OTA TV, an NES, and an offline DOS computer as my only screens until age 10 or 11 so when we got dial-up, which could only be used sparingly (one phone line) and sitting at a desk. All were kinda fun, but also boring enough that you'd wanna go outside and ride bikes or something after an hour or two. The modern Web is like having a cable subscription with 100 channels of only stuff you love (and most of it the crappy low-value stuff that you, nonetheless, love). It's hard to moderate use as an adult, let alone for kids. [EDIT] yes of course you can and should just tell them no, as with other decisions they're bad at making, and I have no problem doing that, but what I'm unsure about is whether the benefit of Web-anwhere-in-the-house and Netflix and Youtube and so on are worth even having to enforce rules to begin with—maybe it's better to not have them at all, because they're so low-value compared with less distracting and addictive alternatives.
- kodablah 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, and as someone who has a newborn and will be going through this at some point, how do you determine what effects your policies have on their potential social ostracization especially as they get older. In my youth I witnessed this social outcasting happen to children based on parental restrictions such as these. I still see it as they become adults. The effect seems to compound on itself from being the one not allowed to do something, to having only the few friends in a similar boat, to being an adult that grew up with fewer friends and fewer at-large interactions. Do you take into account these costs? Is the cost of over-exposure to media greater than the cost of having them be different/segregated to satisfy this?
woolvalley 9y ago
Keep on going! It can be pretty hard to be screenless although when it's a single child. You are their playmate pretty much 24/7 unless you can schedule other kids, which can be a good amount of work unlike siblings because of today's legal structures.
- rdlecler1 9y ago
  If they’re old enough you can introduce them to reading and find them playmates.
ktta 9y ago
I'm 20 and I have my experience to share too. My parents didn't really limit me going out. In fact, they encouraged it. But I found the internet to be way more fascinating compared to my friends. I did have friends and a 'normal' life, but I was an introvert by any measure. I had people to hang out with at school and places to hang out with friends after, but I never wanted to go out and goof off. I want to say it isn't so black and white. That said, I do find kids' exposure to electronics reaching an alarming point these days. Parents I feel just tend to plop an iPad infront of them all day which keeps them entertained to no end. They are extremely hyperactive since those games require them to be but teaching nothing of value. I can't say that's definitely bad, but it is scary. Maybe that's what a generation before me thought about me, so who am I to say? If I may give advice, I would suggest you limit access to games and especially ads. Ads definitely have an effect on kids and is the very first media they see that is designed to manipulate them. Next, maybe download some fun but informative videos from YouTube? (Don't ever give them free access to youtube, trust me. Really). YouTube Kids from what I've seen is trash and has nothing better than subpar cartoons. There are interesting things I feel could keep them entertained but also benefit them. When you take away access to something, make sure they have something to do that they find interesting. Not just you. A big mistake I think parents make. Encyclopedias aren't so fascinating in comparison to the entirety of the internet, and we just feel robbed of fun. Talk to them.
- joaomacp 9y ago
  22 here. I agree with everything except the ads part. Me and my friends are so used to identifying and quickly ignoring ads from a young age, that they have become largely uneffective on us. Comparatively my not-so-techie friends and family, that haven't grown up so used to ads, tend to be more influenced by them and purchase more stuff (my dad clicks facebook ads more regularly than me and my friends).
  - yayadarsh 9y ago
    This is a common misconception. Advertising does not need to be hidden to "work". Advertising is not just facebook ads (which you admit to clicking, although not as regularly as your dad), but also involves creating positive sentiment for a brand or product over time through techniques like mere exposure. I Wwnt to preface that I do understand where you are coming from, and spent many years agreeing with the sentiment that you pose, but over time came to realize that I was mistaken and had an oversimplified view of what makes the advertising industry tick. In the interest of discussion: do you think that most people are too lazy/ignorant to ignore ads like you and your friends do?
Rudism 9y ago
My opinion (as a parent of two <10yr old boys) is that screens are the new rock music/comic books/video games/bad-thing-du-jour that parents are demonizing as destroying the younger generation. There's always something, and it's never anywhere near as bad or destructive as was feared. It's just the next phase of a natural and inescapable societal progression.
- Retric 9y ago
  I think media can harm attention spans. I used to spend a lot of time reading books/programming for fun and after spending more time consuming short term content my attention span seems far more fragile. Abstractly, anything you spend a lot of time doing is going to shape how you think and not necessarily in positive ways.
- sliverstorm 9y ago
  Those were generally about culture and morals though, right? Rock and roll, drugs, etc scared parents because it was viewed as depraved & debaucherous, nobody was worried it was a substitute for good parenting and that it would impair your development of social skills. Concerns about "screens" today seems more analogous to the old "TV-as-parent" issue.
  - conception 9y ago
    Worse, screens today are about companies directly tapping into brain mechanisms to induce as close to addiction as they can get. Opiate of the masses indeed.
josephjrobison 9y ago
Just limit to one hour a day unless they’re programming or researching or creating and they’ll be fine. Was limited to an hour of tv and games a day as a kid and of course craved more, but me and siblings did well in school and socially partially from that. Anecdotal 2 cents.
- samsolomon 9y ago
  I think this is a good point. How are the screens being used—are they playing games or learning to make things? Making things should be encouraged.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kraig911 9y ago
I'm a father of an autistic 4 year old girl. Removing screens entirely from her has caused her to develop language and sleep better. I can't say why or how but I highly recommend just avoiding screens (including TV's). The hardest thing too I think causing all this is us as parents tend to hover much more than our parents did to us.
- rdlecler1 9y ago
  How do you disentangle this from normal development? It could be like taking vitamin C to cure a cold?
otakucode 9y ago
Eh, you won't be able to give your children the independence they need to develop as a mature adult (society will prevent you from doing that), so might as well let them sink into a screen. The alternative is forbidding literally the only outlet in the entire world that gives them even the barest illusion of autonomy and surveilling and manipulating them continuously while watching them break down into learned helplessness.
ikurei 9y ago
This is probably one of the most important questions possible: How should I teach my kids? I was denied access to computers, and I don't think it did me any good. I'm 27, so a bit old for this topic, but my house was specially up to date bc of my dad's job. The internet was dangerous and diabolic in my mom's mind though, and my access to computers was extremely limited. This, I feel, made me want computers even more. I realised early the magical powers of the internet. I wanted nothing more than a computer for myself. Even now, I easily get hooked (wouldn't say addicted) with videogames, porn, or just browsing. Observing my friends, those who had more freedom in this regard are the ones that cares less about any of this; those of us still playing too much videogames are the ones who had very stingy restrictions there. I'm under the impression that what my parents would have been better advised to do is give me more freedom. All of my younger siblings had more leeway in that sense, and I'm by far the most introverted of the bunch. All of my peers were very obviously more socially apt than me; they had been going out for years by the time I was allowed. Feeling at a constant disadvantage in social situations stifled me. Of course, anecdata. Also, raising a child might be one of the most difficult and terrible things you can do. And at the same time, kids are more resilient that we give them credit for, as long as they're loved (!) and fed. (I feel my parents did a fantastic job, even though I could point out a dozen things I think were very wrong. I'm sure if I had children of my own my opinion on my parents' job would increase dramatically.)
- codekilla 9y ago
  Raising children with technology is certainly a challenge. I have 5 kids, oldest 8 years old, youngest 15 months, living in a condo in LA because...you know......f'ing real estate prices, single family homes with 1200 square feet are 1.3 million in our district. So how do you let kids be free if they can't even go outside really?...and multiple kids in a condo without some kind of T.V. or tablet is utter insanity. It's been very tough, but we don't have a T.V., we do let our kids use the tablet, with restricted apps and time. Our neighbors below us hate us and are moving....because you know....five kids stomping around above them, but I guess this is the new reality. The best thing we did was smooth coat all the walls with plaster and then make 2 large chalkboard walls. I am constantly surprised by how well this worked out. I think the tactility of the chalk has been an important factor, one that I overlooked, as I always used dry erase markers. I'm a convert to chalk now and my kids only use the best, Hagaromo full-touch. Working on math homework is a dream now as I can easily sketch out geometric concepts and have them trace over it with their fingers. Sure you could do it on paper, but something about standing in front of the chalkboard makes it more compelling. Aside from that setting up a folding table on the balcony and buying them a bunch of mid-grade chemistry stuff has also worked out surprisingly well. A couple days ago they created a catalytic reaction that actually gave off quite a good bit of heat. Could they have injured themselves? Probably. I'd rather have them experiment and explore. 4 of my kids are girls, and this raises special challenges. We fought a war with both sets of grandparents about not buying them dresses or pink gender defining toys. I was shocked how much resistance we got on this, but I strongly advise parents of girls to consider what the value of gender neutrality is, and whether or not it makes sense for them to try and abide by it when buying toys or clothes. If you do, be prepared to meet with a lot of resistance, both from your parents and public school. Just my two cents.
fsloth 9y ago
With two kids, I'd say it depends on the personality. My son (10) is totally absorbed by screens and digital games of any sort. For him, I would have reduced early digital exposure had I known how hooked up he gets. On the other hand, my daughter (7) has as much exposure to screens as he does and she seems to naturally shift her interest between various things, the majority of which do not include smart devices. Eh, I don't know. The only thing I know we are doing right is having strict limits on screen time.
artur_makly 9y ago
this IS the biggest parental challenge of the century since it will affect every cognitive, emotional, and social development of our next gen. My wife and I decided to ban our son (now 5) from all digital consumption as long as possible. we went hard-edged when we noticed his uncontrollable addiction. it was all he asked for daily. nothing else mattered. no interest in the robot cubetto we bought him, reading, playing with toys, or even being very communicative. sure it was EASY to just hand him the digital pacifier when he was 1,2,3 yrs old. now we see the start of the epidemic before our eyes. its real but we are taking back control and starting on a healthy hands-on path of learning and having fun the good ol way. and if he ends up being in the minority - so be it. at least he will be a a whole human being with empathy who can create, dance, run for miles, focus, communicate, and think critically miles beyond his zombified peers. Its never too late.
- gbell12 9y ago
  I'm a parent of 14 and 11 year-olds and we're always struggling with this. I'd like to chat with you about this further. Find me on #parents-with-tech on freenode IRC (I've invited one other parent I've found).
  - artur_makly 9y ago
    thanks for the invite but im not on IRC. you can checkout this app to help track usage : https://inthemoment.io/ https://inthemoment.io/
the_jeremy 9y ago
24. My middle school was dominated by a publicly-placed crappy terminal with an internet timer. My parents said I had to do one sport and play one instrument, but other than that didn't force anything. I could hang out with friends whenever I wanted, but I was a bit socially awkward and introverted until high school.
gbell12 9y ago
I'm a parent of 14 and 11 year-olds and we're always struggling with this. I'd like to chat with you about this further. Find me on #parents-with-tech on freenode IRC (I've invited one other parent I've found).

by ashark 9y ago

quadrangle 9y ago

I can say this: you aren't alone! I'm in the exact same boat. Ironically, if we can coordinate those of us who "get it" on this issue, maybe we can organize at least some spaces and communities where kids can interact free of screens and have friends etc. About the most important org any parent should know about and support: http://commercialfreechildhood.org/ http://commercialfreechildhood.org/

kenning 9y ago

Some research suggests excessive restriction on screen use may be worse, and it's not abnormal for boys to use devices more than girls http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-screen-time-guidelines-too-restrictive-according-new-research http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-scree...

gowld 9y ago
The article drums that line, but the research cited says that screen time is irrelevant. They also didn't measure screen time, they relied on parents self-reporting which may be very high or low (reflecting parental self-image,not actual screen time). And the research didn't look at long-term effects, only short-term. And it waved off that high screen time may be merely correlated to poverty and unengaged parenting, not literally strictly screen time. The research isn't an endorsement to let little kids stare at tablets all day.
- kenning 9y ago
  Theres thousands of studies on this kind of thing, and you could find one to support any belief. Here's a list of studies with several different findings: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/is-video-gaming-bad-for-you-the-science-for-and-against/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/is-video-gaming-... Here's another, with some contradictory findings: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/08/08/338855459/playing-video-games-can-help-or-hurt-depending-on-who-you-ask https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/08/08/3388554... One interesting study in that second set actually said that a small amount of gaming per day, less than an hour, was beneficial -- better than not at all.

losteverything 9y ago

You will screw up your kids just like your parents screwed you up.... You just don't know how yet. But it isn't really screwed up... It is called parenting. Then when u become a grandparent it begins to totally make sense....we all screw up our kids...teaching thwm how to recover is the real deal

ashark 9y ago
Yeah, I get that, but there's screwed up and there's screwed up, ya know? Sure you can be in the top 50% of parents by just not actively trying to screw them up, but I'd like to do better than that, within reason, and tech/screens/Web seem to me like pretty big things worthy of a little attention and care, especially as they get older. Finding something like a least-harm/most-benefit way to fit that into our home lives is probably worth spending some thought on.
- losteverything 9y ago
  My kid tells us we did her/him a big disservice by just who were were: an in love couple with a good marriage. She/he tells us ahe/he was so unprepared for relationships and the knowledge that others' sid not come from our style home (happy marriage filled with love, imo) Now how does one predict that??? Introduce my kids to broken marriages?
  - bastijn 9y ago
    Offtopic: are we now so gender neutral we even cannot address our own kid as he or she? Or did you do this on purpose to hide the gender of your kid as part of your privacy? No flame intended. Honest question. Never thought about the gender of my kids being a privacy thing. Ontopic: As a parent I (we) try not to restrain things like screen use. Instead we actively promote all other forms of spending time we prefer more. This means I usually enter the room before my kids get up and put the devices away and put other toys in sight. My wife is a montessori (method) teacher which makes her quite skilled at knowing which kind of toys/lessons our kids like at what time in their life. Meaning each couple of weeks the things we prepare change. Result is they usually first pick a bit of everything in plain sight and only after, at the end of day, ask for a device. We didn’t tell them not to, it is just they really like their puzzles, painting, and what have you. In real life preparing means putting things in sight instead of in a closet and one of us being downstairs before the kids is normal as well. Not much effort there. Disclaimer: my oldest is only 3 right now. Older kids may be entirely different though I believe promoting better options has a better effect than restraining the negative ones.

Analemma_ 9y ago

Keep in mind that if the OP is 21, then "when s/he was very young" would've been circa 2000. That was before smartphones or even Wi-Fi, where you pretty much had to be seated at a desk to use a computer, which is very different from the situation now. This is an epidemic that snuck up on us.

soperj 9y ago
We had a laptop with windows 95 on it. Just because you weren't on the internet, didn't mean you couldn't use a computer...there were actually lots of things that you would do without a connection then.
- Analemma_ 9y ago
  That's not really what I meant. Of course there were computers then. What I mean is that "ubiquitous screens and connectivity" wasn't yet a thing, and it's a phenomenon that crept up on us, so it's a little unfair to blame parents of a kid born ~1997 for not locking down screen time. We didn't know that was really a problem (at least, a problem distinct from "too much TV") until just a few years ago.
  - soperj 9y ago
    I was born in 83. I'd definitely say I had too much screen time as a kid. I was generally either on a computer or watching tv most of the time that I wasn't playing hockey or at school (or doing homework), I could still play gameboy on the way to the rink. I think I actually have less screen time now and I'm a programmer, and do programming at home on the side after work as well. Mostly I cut out the tv watching, since it seems like such a waste of time. I don't think it's that screentime itself that's such a problem, but the content, and mindlessness of some stuff. I'm happy to let my 5 year old watch Cosmos with me, Paw Patrol on the other hand makes the kid go crazy.

aaroninsf 9y ago

Kids approaching 7 and 10 watch some movies/vetted series online, only recently got Kindle tablets which they are literally only allowed to use on long (3 hr+) transits, never at home. No TV or analog in house. I am now torn as the older kid is at a prime age to introduce programming... ...but the benefits we see daily from no-screen childhood are to our biased eyes overwhelming. Our kids spend all their free time engaged in imaginative play much of it collaborative, and manipulating physical objects, and when we can get out, outside. Their ability to sit in a room with no screen and make a world seems pretty rare, compared to peers who were given ipads or whatever years ago. But I also worry, how do we also make sure they are literate and savvy. I fear that as soon if the programming bug bites it will be the End...

ashark 9y ago
Maybe offline or rarely-online screens would work? An RPi2 (no wifi) stuck in some corner, running Linux? That kind of thing. I think the Web's far and away the most dangerous part of screens. I grew up mostly with OTA TV, an NES, and an offline DOS computer as my only screens until age 10 or 11 so when we got dial-up, which could only be used sparingly (one phone line) and sitting at a desk. All were kinda fun, but also boring enough that you'd wanna go outside and ride bikes or something after an hour or two. The modern Web is like having a cable subscription with 100 channels of only stuff you love (and most of it the crappy low-value stuff that you, nonetheless, love). It's hard to moderate use as an adult, let alone for kids. [EDIT] yes of course you can and should just tell them no, as with other decisions they're bad at making, and I have no problem doing that, but what I'm unsure about is whether the benefit of Web-anwhere-in-the-house and Netflix and Youtube and so on are worth even having to enforce rules to begin with—maybe it's better to not have them at all, because they're so low-value compared with less distracting and addictive alternatives.
kodablah 9y ago
Out of curiosity, and as someone who has a newborn and will be going through this at some point, how do you determine what effects your policies have on their potential social ostracization especially as they get older. In my youth I witnessed this social outcasting happen to children based on parental restrictions such as these. I still see it as they become adults. The effect seems to compound on itself from being the one not allowed to do something, to having only the few friends in a similar boat, to being an adult that grew up with fewer friends and fewer at-large interactions. Do you take into account these costs? Is the cost of over-exposure to media greater than the cost of having them be different/segregated to satisfy this?

woolvalley 9y ago

Keep on going! It can be pretty hard to be screenless although when it's a single child. You are their playmate pretty much 24/7 unless you can schedule other kids, which can be a good amount of work unlike siblings because of today's legal structures.

rdlecler1 9y ago
If they’re old enough you can introduce them to reading and find them playmates.

ktta 9y ago

I'm 20 and I have my experience to share too. My parents didn't really limit me going out. In fact, they encouraged it. But I found the internet to be way more fascinating compared to my friends. I did have friends and a 'normal' life, but I was an introvert by any measure. I had people to hang out with at school and places to hang out with friends after, but I never wanted to go out and goof off. I want to say it isn't so black and white. That said, I do find kids' exposure to electronics reaching an alarming point these days. Parents I feel just tend to plop an iPad infront of them all day which keeps them entertained to no end. They are extremely hyperactive since those games require them to be but teaching nothing of value. I can't say that's definitely bad, but it is scary. Maybe that's what a generation before me thought about me, so who am I to say? If I may give advice, I would suggest you limit access to games and especially ads. Ads definitely have an effect on kids and is the very first media they see that is designed to manipulate them. Next, maybe download some fun but informative videos from YouTube? (Don't ever give them free access to youtube, trust me. Really). YouTube Kids from what I've seen is trash and has nothing better than subpar cartoons. There are interesting things I feel could keep them entertained but also benefit them. When you take away access to something, make sure they have something to do that they find interesting. Not just you. A big mistake I think parents make. Encyclopedias aren't so fascinating in comparison to the entirety of the internet, and we just feel robbed of fun. Talk to them.

joaomacp 9y ago
22 here. I agree with everything except the ads part. Me and my friends are so used to identifying and quickly ignoring ads from a young age, that they have become largely uneffective on us. Comparatively my not-so-techie friends and family, that haven't grown up so used to ads, tend to be more influenced by them and purchase more stuff (my dad clicks facebook ads more regularly than me and my friends).
- yayadarsh 9y ago
  This is a common misconception. Advertising does not need to be hidden to "work". Advertising is not just facebook ads (which you admit to clicking, although not as regularly as your dad), but also involves creating positive sentiment for a brand or product over time through techniques like mere exposure. I Wwnt to preface that I do understand where you are coming from, and spent many years agreeing with the sentiment that you pose, but over time came to realize that I was mistaken and had an oversimplified view of what makes the advertising industry tick. In the interest of discussion: do you think that most people are too lazy/ignorant to ignore ads like you and your friends do?

Rudism 9y ago

My opinion (as a parent of two <10yr old boys) is that screens are the new rock music/comic books/video games/bad-thing-du-jour that parents are demonizing as destroying the younger generation. There's always something, and it's never anywhere near as bad or destructive as was feared. It's just the next phase of a natural and inescapable societal progression.

Retric 9y ago
I think media can harm attention spans. I used to spend a lot of time reading books/programming for fun and after spending more time consuming short term content my attention span seems far more fragile. Abstractly, anything you spend a lot of time doing is going to shape how you think and not necessarily in positive ways.
sliverstorm 9y ago
Those were generally about culture and morals though, right? Rock and roll, drugs, etc scared parents because it was viewed as depraved & debaucherous, nobody was worried it was a substitute for good parenting and that it would impair your development of social skills. Concerns about "screens" today seems more analogous to the old "TV-as-parent" issue.
- conception 9y ago
  Worse, screens today are about companies directly tapping into brain mechanisms to induce as close to addiction as they can get. Opiate of the masses indeed.

josephjrobison 9y ago

Just limit to one hour a day unless they’re programming or researching or creating and they’ll be fine. Was limited to an hour of tv and games a day as a kid and of course craved more, but me and siblings did well in school and socially partially from that. Anecdotal 2 cents.

samsolomon 9y ago
I think this is a good point. How are the screens being used—are they playing games or learning to make things? Making things should be encouraged.

deleted 9y ago

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kraig911 9y ago

I'm a father of an autistic 4 year old girl. Removing screens entirely from her has caused her to develop language and sleep better. I can't say why or how but I highly recommend just avoiding screens (including TV's). The hardest thing too I think causing all this is us as parents tend to hover much more than our parents did to us.

rdlecler1 9y ago
How do you disentangle this from normal development? It could be like taking vitamin C to cure a cold?

otakucode 9y ago

Eh, you won't be able to give your children the independence they need to develop as a mature adult (society will prevent you from doing that), so might as well let them sink into a screen. The alternative is forbidding literally the only outlet in the entire world that gives them even the barest illusion of autonomy and surveilling and manipulating them continuously while watching them break down into learned helplessness.

ikurei 9y ago

This is probably one of the most important questions possible: How should I teach my kids? I was denied access to computers, and I don't think it did me any good. I'm 27, so a bit old for this topic, but my house was specially up to date bc of my dad's job. The internet was dangerous and diabolic in my mom's mind though, and my access to computers was extremely limited. This, I feel, made me want computers even more. I realised early the magical powers of the internet. I wanted nothing more than a computer for myself. Even now, I easily get hooked (wouldn't say addicted) with videogames, porn, or just browsing. Observing my friends, those who had more freedom in this regard are the ones that cares less about any of this; those of us still playing too much videogames are the ones who had very stingy restrictions there. I'm under the impression that what my parents would have been better advised to do is give me more freedom. All of my younger siblings had more leeway in that sense, and I'm by far the most introverted of the bunch. All of my peers were very obviously more socially apt than me; they had been going out for years by the time I was allowed. Feeling at a constant disadvantage in social situations stifled me. Of course, anecdata. Also, raising a child might be one of the most difficult and terrible things you can do. And at the same time, kids are more resilient that we give them credit for, as long as they're loved (!) and fed. (I feel my parents did a fantastic job, even though I could point out a dozen things I think were very wrong. I'm sure if I had children of my own my opinion on my parents' job would increase dramatically.)

codekilla 9y ago
Raising children with technology is certainly a challenge. I have 5 kids, oldest 8 years old, youngest 15 months, living in a condo in LA because...you know......f'ing real estate prices, single family homes with 1200 square feet are 1.3 million in our district. So how do you let kids be free if they can't even go outside really?...and multiple kids in a condo without some kind of T.V. or tablet is utter insanity. It's been very tough, but we don't have a T.V., we do let our kids use the tablet, with restricted apps and time. Our neighbors below us hate us and are moving....because you know....five kids stomping around above them, but I guess this is the new reality. The best thing we did was smooth coat all the walls with plaster and then make 2 large chalkboard walls. I am constantly surprised by how well this worked out. I think the tactility of the chalk has been an important factor, one that I overlooked, as I always used dry erase markers. I'm a convert to chalk now and my kids only use the best, Hagaromo full-touch. Working on math homework is a dream now as I can easily sketch out geometric concepts and have them trace over it with their fingers. Sure you could do it on paper, but something about standing in front of the chalkboard makes it more compelling. Aside from that setting up a folding table on the balcony and buying them a bunch of mid-grade chemistry stuff has also worked out surprisingly well. A couple days ago they created a catalytic reaction that actually gave off quite a good bit of heat. Could they have injured themselves? Probably. I'd rather have them experiment and explore. 4 of my kids are girls, and this raises special challenges. We fought a war with both sets of grandparents about not buying them dresses or pink gender defining toys. I was shocked how much resistance we got on this, but I strongly advise parents of girls to consider what the value of gender neutrality is, and whether or not it makes sense for them to try and abide by it when buying toys or clothes. If you do, be prepared to meet with a lot of resistance, both from your parents and public school. Just my two cents.

fsloth 9y ago

With two kids, I'd say it depends on the personality. My son (10) is totally absorbed by screens and digital games of any sort. For him, I would have reduced early digital exposure had I known how hooked up he gets. On the other hand, my daughter (7) has as much exposure to screens as he does and she seems to naturally shift her interest between various things, the majority of which do not include smart devices. Eh, I don't know. The only thing I know we are doing right is having strict limits on screen time.

artur_makly 9y ago

this IS the biggest parental challenge of the century since it will affect every cognitive, emotional, and social development of our next gen. My wife and I decided to ban our son (now 5) from all digital consumption as long as possible. we went hard-edged when we noticed his uncontrollable addiction. it was all he asked for daily. nothing else mattered. no interest in the robot cubetto we bought him, reading, playing with toys, or even being very communicative. sure it was EASY to just hand him the digital pacifier when he was 1,2,3 yrs old. now we see the start of the epidemic before our eyes. its real but we are taking back control and starting on a healthy hands-on path of learning and having fun the good ol way. and if he ends up being in the minority - so be it. at least he will be a a whole human being with empathy who can create, dance, run for miles, focus, communicate, and think critically miles beyond his zombified peers. Its never too late.

gbell12 9y ago
I'm a parent of 14 and 11 year-olds and we're always struggling with this. I'd like to chat with you about this further. Find me on #parents-with-tech on freenode IRC (I've invited one other parent I've found).
- artur_makly 9y ago
  thanks for the invite but im not on IRC. you can checkout this app to help track usage : https://inthemoment.io/ https://inthemoment.io/

the_jeremy 9y ago

24. My middle school was dominated by a publicly-placed crappy terminal with an internet timer. My parents said I had to do one sport and play one instrument, but other than that didn't force anything. I could hang out with friends whenever I wanted, but I was a bit socially awkward and introverted until high school.

gbell12 9y ago

I'm a parent of 14 and 11 year-olds and we're always struggling with this. I'd like to chat with you about this further. Find me on #parents-with-tech on freenode IRC (I've invited one other parent I've found).