3 ms·

> I mean you would agree that a bunch of people could organize a boycott of Echo with ads. Yes I would. I don't see why you need to "organize" it though. I don

by kk_cz 9y ago

> I mean you would agree that a bunch of people could organize a boycott of Echo with ads. Yes I would. I don't see why you need to "organize" it though. I don't need any form of organization to not use product I don't like. > It's because we lack a coordination mechanism, the incentive of individual boycotters is to cheat. You lost me here. You have internet full of coordination tools if you really feel like boycott of echo should be coordinated, just set up a fb group :).

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago
>You lost me here. You have internet full of coordination tools if you really feel like boycott of echo should be coordinated, just set up a fb group :). Boycotts are basically ineffective, especially the social media kind.[1] Why are unions effective at coordinating? Because there's a punishment if you don't coordinate (you have to leave.) Why are elections effective at coordinating? Because everyone reveals their preference all at once anonymously and the collective decision is binding. Why do I and my coworkers coordinate? Because I have a supervisor who will fire me if I screw up. In this way I see your point is that we should only use coordination mechanisms which are basically ineffective. As soon as we approach a coordination mechanism which is effective (government) you start to condemn it. [1] http://i.imgur.com/MLZ0bMu.png http://i.imgur.com/MLZ0bMu.png
- tinymollusk 9y ago
  My problem with government intervention isn't the "inefficiency" myth. Like most large complex entities referred to in the aggregate abstract, they do some things well and some poorly. My concern with gov't action is the second and third order effects. Governments are implemented primarily by bureaucrats, whose primary incentive is to maintain their job. Any policy that gets implemented poorly (inefficiently), tends to continue because of the employees personal incentives. This suggests, to me, that governments (as they are in America today) should not be experimenting. Culling the losers is super important for exploration, and probably the thing our local/state/federal gov't is worst at. (If a company makes repeatedly poor decisions, they will tend towards insolvency/change in management.)
- kk_cz 9y ago
  Customer ignoring inferior products is very effective, it literally drives companies out of business every day. It's just usually not described as "boycott". What you are reffering to are instances where some individuals believe that it would be beneficial to boycott something, but they are unable to get wider public to share their view. Don't get me wrong - I see your point, but in order for this "ad tax" to be legitimate in my eyes it would need to be an actual issue discussed before the elections. If your elected officials declared, that their priority will be to introduce advertisement tax and they won the election with this promise then I'd accept it as a reasonable action. (but I still believe that it might be easier to just ignore all overly ad-ridden products and wait for ad-free alternative) For TV you can pay for ad-free experience (like HBO), this option is comming to online services as well (youtube red). I feel that this process is more efficient and faster way to eventually get echo like service that won't sell it's users as a product.

by kk_cz 9y ago

frgtpsswrdlame 9y ago

>You lost me here. You have internet full of coordination tools if you really feel like boycott of echo should be coordinated, just set up a fb group :). Boycotts are basically ineffective, especially the social media kind.[1] Why are unions effective at coordinating? Because there's a punishment if you don't coordinate (you have to leave.) Why are elections effective at coordinating? Because everyone reveals their preference all at once anonymously and the collective decision is binding. Why do I and my coworkers coordinate? Because I have a supervisor who will fire me if I screw up. In this way I see your point is that we should only use coordination mechanisms which are basically ineffective. As soon as we approach a coordination mechanism which is effective (government) you start to condemn it. [1] http://i.imgur.com/MLZ0bMu.png http://i.imgur.com/MLZ0bMu.png

tinymollusk 9y ago
My problem with government intervention isn't the "inefficiency" myth. Like most large complex entities referred to in the aggregate abstract, they do some things well and some poorly. My concern with gov't action is the second and third order effects. Governments are implemented primarily by bureaucrats, whose primary incentive is to maintain their job. Any policy that gets implemented poorly (inefficiently), tends to continue because of the employees personal incentives. This suggests, to me, that governments (as they are in America today) should not be experimenting. Culling the losers is super important for exploration, and probably the thing our local/state/federal gov't is worst at. (If a company makes repeatedly poor decisions, they will tend towards insolvency/change in management.)
kk_cz 9y ago
Customer ignoring inferior products is very effective, it literally drives companies out of business every day. It's just usually not described as "boycott". What you are reffering to are instances where some individuals believe that it would be beneficial to boycott something, but they are unable to get wider public to share their view. Don't get me wrong - I see your point, but in order for this "ad tax" to be legitimate in my eyes it would need to be an actual issue discussed before the elections. If your elected officials declared, that their priority will be to introduce advertisement tax and they won the election with this promise then I'd accept it as a reasonable action. (but I still believe that it might be easier to just ignore all overly ad-ridden products and wait for ad-free alternative) For TV you can pay for ad-free experience (like HBO), this option is comming to online services as well (youtube red). I feel that this process is more efficient and faster way to eventually get echo like service that won't sell it's users as a product.