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Many religious people don't think the death penalty is a good thing. When I questioned a Catholic monk about this very issue he told me that while the Church co

Many religious people don't think the death penalty is a good thing. When I questioned a Catholic monk about this very issue he told me that while the Church condemns both the death penalty and abortion, because abortion affects tens of millions of "people" each year it's given more attention by the Church than the death penalty which affects many less people per year. However for those that do support the death penalty while at the same time condemning abortion, it's important to realize that for them there is no inconsistency. It goes like this: abortion is bad because the unborn are morally equivalent to birthed people (by virtue of their souls), and they are essentially innocent beings. Criminals are not innocent, and therefore killing them is excusable. Their belief is not inconsistent because of the role innocence plays. Now you may disregard the importance of innocence here, but that doesn't make their views inconsistent.

CaptainZapp 9y ago
Thank you for the great response. Much appreciated. Their belief is not inconsistent because of the role innocence plays. Now you may disregard the importance of innocence here, but that doesn't make their views inconsistent Well, what about a significant number of people executed, which were completely innocent? There are some absolutely galling stories out there about innocents being executed despite the fact that there were huge doubts on their guilt or on the verdict as such due to the conduct of the proscutor (withholding evidence, using known liars as witnesses, relying on more than dodgy "scientific" evidence, recanting of witnesses who had a personal motive to snitch in the first place, etc). In that view the possibility of one innocent person being killed should automatically illegitimze capitol punishment. Apparently it does not. While I can understand the stance of the catholic church I still think that logically you cannot oppose abortion, while supporting the death penalty. You made me understand, however, that this inconsistency is not applicable to a lot of those people. It doesn't make it logically less inconsistent in my view. Anyway, thanks for the insight. It's at the very least, very interesting.
- simula67 9y ago
  > In that view the possibility of one innocent person being killed should automatically illegitimze capitol punishment. Apparently it does not. > While I can understand the stance of the catholic church I still think that logically you cannot oppose abortion, while supporting the death penalty I think that the Catholic view is that murder is defined as "intentional taking of innocent human life" and that it is immoral. In this case you are not intentionally taking an innocent life. Similarly in case of abortion, the church does not oppose treatments that could save the mother's life that could cause the child's death. Here, your intention is to save the mother's life, not to hurt the child. The loss of child's life is an unintenional but unavoidable side effect : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_the_Catholic_Church#Unintentional_abortion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_the_Catholic_Ch...
- replicatorblog 9y ago
  The official position of the Catholic Church (The most numerous Christian denomination) is in opposition to the death penalty: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/death-penalty-capital-punishment/catholic-campaign-to-end-the-use-of-the-death-penalty.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignit... When Pope Francis addressed the United States Congress, he was chided by many for denouncing the death penalty which took 23 American lives in 2017, while staying silent on abortion, of which 652,639 took place in 2014. There are certainly churches, typically evangelical, that are rabidly anti-abortion while promoting the death penalty, but it's less common in Catholic communities or even mainline Protestant denominations.
- ams6110 9y ago
  Just in numbers though, the number of abortions performed in a day probably dwarfs the number of death penalty executions performed in a decade. If you'd agree to outlaw abortions in exchange for outlawing the death penalty, most pro-lifers would probably take that deal in a heartbeat.

CaptainZapp 9y ago

Thank you for the great response. Much appreciated. Their belief is not inconsistent because of the role innocence plays. Now you may disregard the importance of innocence here, but that doesn't make their views inconsistent Well, what about a significant number of people executed, which were completely innocent? There are some absolutely galling stories out there about innocents being executed despite the fact that there were huge doubts on their guilt or on the verdict as such due to the conduct of the proscutor (withholding evidence, using known liars as witnesses, relying on more than dodgy "scientific" evidence, recanting of witnesses who had a personal motive to snitch in the first place, etc). In that view the possibility of one innocent person being killed should automatically illegitimze capitol punishment. Apparently it does not. While I can understand the stance of the catholic church I still think that logically you cannot oppose abortion, while supporting the death penalty. You made me understand, however, that this inconsistency is not applicable to a lot of those people. It doesn't make it logically less inconsistent in my view. Anyway, thanks for the insight. It's at the very least, very interesting.

simula67 9y ago
> In that view the possibility of one innocent person being killed should automatically illegitimze capitol punishment. Apparently it does not. > While I can understand the stance of the catholic church I still think that logically you cannot oppose abortion, while supporting the death penalty I think that the Catholic view is that murder is defined as "intentional taking of innocent human life" and that it is immoral. In this case you are not intentionally taking an innocent life. Similarly in case of abortion, the church does not oppose treatments that could save the mother's life that could cause the child's death. Here, your intention is to save the mother's life, not to hurt the child. The loss of child's life is an unintenional but unavoidable side effect : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_the_Catholic_Church#Unintentional_abortion https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_the_Catholic_Ch...
replicatorblog 9y ago
The official position of the Catholic Church (The most numerous Christian denomination) is in opposition to the death penalty: http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/death-penalty-capital-punishment/catholic-campaign-to-end-the-use-of-the-death-penalty.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignit... When Pope Francis addressed the United States Congress, he was chided by many for denouncing the death penalty which took 23 American lives in 2017, while staying silent on abortion, of which 652,639 took place in 2014. There are certainly churches, typically evangelical, that are rabidly anti-abortion while promoting the death penalty, but it's less common in Catholic communities or even mainline Protestant denominations.
ams6110 9y ago
Just in numbers though, the number of abortions performed in a day probably dwarfs the number of death penalty executions performed in a decade. If you'd agree to outlaw abortions in exchange for outlawing the death penalty, most pro-lifers would probably take that deal in a heartbeat.