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I drove the Model 3 last week. It’s a properly good car in it’s own right - It reminded me of the MOdel 3 from BMS in how it handles, of course the performance

I drove the Model 3 last week. It’s a properly good car in it’s own right - It reminded me of the MOdel 3 from BMS in how it handles, of course the performance curve is totally different. The rethinking of the dashboard is perfect for the cell phone age. It’s Apple Good (back when Apple was good). The performance curve - the instant power at any point is addicting. The seats were comfortable, and the trunk space was ample. The build quality, at least on the unit I saw is _better_ then the S or the X right now. This is primarily due to the simplification of the assembly compared to the S and the X. Honestly, having driven both, I would buy a 3 before buying a S. The only killer feature I see missing is the air suspension, and we know that is coming for the 3. They are going to sell a million of the 3s. For the record, I’m not a EV or a green evangelist. I don’t have a snarky license plate, or solar on my roof. But I will be picking one of these up. It’s perfect for my use cases. People will compare it with the Bolt, but people forget that SUperchargers are Tesla only right now. Want to get from LA to NY? Easy in Tesla. With a Bolt, there are places that you just can’t go. It looks like (judging by VIN allocations, which is not a great method, but also by drone videos) that Tesla hit 1k a week the last week or two of December. Assuming no huge bottlenecks remaining, that takes them solidly half way up their ramp, with one more huge jump - to 3-5k a week - remaining.

BoorishBears 9y ago
The Bolt has DC fast charging, the Volt is a PHEV and would make it from LA to NY with 5 minute stops.
- InTheArena 9y ago
  Yep, sorry I meant Bolt above.
- matahwoosh 9y ago
  I believe Bolt is capped at 50kW fast charging, whereas superchargers provide 120kW, so not so fast for Bolt ;) (probably at least an hour to fully charge it's 60kWh battery)
noveltyaccount 9y ago
> With a Volt, there are places that you just can’t go. To be fair, you can charge any EV fairly quickly at any campground with 220V RV hookups. With adequate planning, I think you could drive a Bolt anywhere.
- mikeash 9y ago
  I wouldn’t describe the ~30MPH you get from a 240V RV plug as “fairly quickly.” It’s fine for an overnight charge, but you’ll basically be limited to driving the car’s single-charge range each day. It’s possible but I wouldn’t want to try it.
  - Retric 9y ago
    You can go from east to west coast in the US in 10 days while limiting yourself to ~210 miles per day. For a retired person with little need to hurry that's reasonable even with only nightly charging. Personally, I have little interest in driving 600+ miles per day making fast charging minimally useful.
    - rconti 9y ago
      For a lot of people 210 miles is the start of a weekend away. I routinely do that on a friday after work.
    - ltdanimal 9y ago
      What coastal cities are 2100 miles away? Maybe for few that are retired, but 210 isn't the best for trips that far, and that's assuming the chargers are exactly at where you need them to be
    - woolvalley 9y ago
      The big long range use cases in California is San Jose-Tahoe (with its mountain climb reducing range), LA-SF, LA-NV & SF-SD. So you would want a supercharger for those trips. Also for car commuting in big metros, 40-60 mile one ways are common enough, which is 120mi round trip. The previous generation of affordable EVs had 80 mi ranges, which didn't work for those metros.
vanderZwan 9y ago
Comments like this make me think the Model 3 is going to be the Ford Model T of electric cars.
- wils1245 9y ago
  The doubt on Tesla is not whether the cars are great, it’s whether they can scale production. You need both to be a Model T.
  - Robotbeat 9y ago
    People had the same questions about the Model X, the Model S before that, and even the Roadster before that. In every case, Tesla eventually was able to get production up and deliver. Tesla has no problem producing enough S and Xes. The question is not "whether" but "when."
    - ploxiln 9y ago
      To be fair, Roadster production was never really "up". I'm not sure demand was at any point satisfied before the model was discontinued. Less than 2,500 were produced.
      - abritinthebay 9y ago
        which is a shame, because it was a lovely car.
    - wils1245 9y ago
      The question is, “can Tesla build a production pipeline before its ability to raise money ends?” In other words “whether” and “when” aren’t different questions in this case.
      - Robotbeat 9y ago
        I think people are underestimating the runway Tesla has, here. Tesla didn't even die in 2008. Now, they have a huge customer base, two other high-end car lines that are themselves doing well, and an enormous amount of goodwill plus a big moat (for charging in particular, at least in the US). Not only that, but SpaceX is doing fantastically well unlike in 2008. I think the hardcore bears are just plain wrong, here. I don't know whether or not Tesla is over-valued (above my pay grade, and I'm not invested anyway), but it's hard to make the case that Tesla is worse off now than in 2008.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
aphextron 9y ago
>With a Bolt, there are places that you just can’t go. This just isn't true, check plugshare.com. It is now possible to drive cross-country in any EV with fast charging.
- emusan 9y ago
  That's not entirely true. There are no CCS DC fast chargers (the type the bolt uses) in much of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and North/South Dakota. You might be able to drive from Seattle to NYC but you'd have to drive pretty far out of your way to do it. Super chargers are available in all of those states, making any cross country driving in that area significantly faster and easier.
- delive 9y ago
  "Can't go" is probably the wrong term, but rather it's not very practical without a Tesla. "fast-charging" just isn't that fast in the US for non-tesla setups. 50kW max (which you don't normally get, usually it's something less) requires you to stop for at least an hour every 2-3 hours in a Bolt. Add in winter conditions and driving at the usual ~75MPH and it gets worse than that. I wouldn't attempt any trip longer than ~200 miles in anything but a Tesla because even the superchargers at 130kW make it just ~bearable once the supercharger novelty wears off.
WorldMaker 9y ago
There are non-Tesla DC superchargers in the US, but yes, the network of those chargers is much less reliable and less well planned in the US. (Versus Europe which maps show a much more thorough ChaDeMo network than the US, which is arguably accountable solely to relative population densities of the continents and Tesla's US-first market focus.) ChaDeMo could still catch up with the right gumption (the rest of the auto manufacturers teaming up, for instance), and there's still a lot of talk about how the two "standards" are easily interoperable with simple adapters (and Tesla has a Tesla-to-ChaDeMo adapter, but so far as I'm aware no one has yet to negotiate for a ChaDeMo-to-Tesla adapter to be sold; Tesla is in a position of strength for now so hard to blame Tesla on hedging that position a bit in the US). At least it looks like the different "winners" in the US versus Europe might keep the game competitive in the current term.

BoorishBears 9y ago

The Bolt has DC fast charging, the Volt is a PHEV and would make it from LA to NY with 5 minute stops.

InTheArena 9y ago
Yep, sorry I meant Bolt above.
matahwoosh 9y ago
I believe Bolt is capped at 50kW fast charging, whereas superchargers provide 120kW, so not so fast for Bolt ;) (probably at least an hour to fully charge it's 60kWh battery)

noveltyaccount 9y ago

> With a Volt, there are places that you just can’t go. To be fair, you can charge any EV fairly quickly at any campground with 220V RV hookups. With adequate planning, I think you could drive a Bolt anywhere.

mikeash 9y ago
I wouldn’t describe the ~30MPH you get from a 240V RV plug as “fairly quickly.” It’s fine for an overnight charge, but you’ll basically be limited to driving the car’s single-charge range each day. It’s possible but I wouldn’t want to try it.
- Retric 9y ago
  You can go from east to west coast in the US in 10 days while limiting yourself to ~210 miles per day. For a retired person with little need to hurry that's reasonable even with only nightly charging. Personally, I have little interest in driving 600+ miles per day making fast charging minimally useful.
  - rconti 9y ago
    For a lot of people 210 miles is the start of a weekend away. I routinely do that on a friday after work.
  - ltdanimal 9y ago
    What coastal cities are 2100 miles away? Maybe for few that are retired, but 210 isn't the best for trips that far, and that's assuming the chargers are exactly at where you need them to be
  - woolvalley 9y ago
    The big long range use cases in California is San Jose-Tahoe (with its mountain climb reducing range), LA-SF, LA-NV & SF-SD. So you would want a supercharger for those trips. Also for car commuting in big metros, 40-60 mile one ways are common enough, which is 120mi round trip. The previous generation of affordable EVs had 80 mi ranges, which didn't work for those metros.

vanderZwan 9y ago

Comments like this make me think the Model 3 is going to be the Ford Model T of electric cars.

wils1245 9y ago
The doubt on Tesla is not whether the cars are great, it’s whether they can scale production. You need both to be a Model T.
- Robotbeat 9y ago
  People had the same questions about the Model X, the Model S before that, and even the Roadster before that. In every case, Tesla eventually was able to get production up and deliver. Tesla has no problem producing enough S and Xes. The question is not "whether" but "when."
  - ploxiln 9y ago
    To be fair, Roadster production was never really "up". I'm not sure demand was at any point satisfied before the model was discontinued. Less than 2,500 were produced.
    - abritinthebay 9y ago
      which is a shame, because it was a lovely car.
  - wils1245 9y ago
    The question is, “can Tesla build a production pipeline before its ability to raise money ends?” In other words “whether” and “when” aren’t different questions in this case.
    - Robotbeat 9y ago
      I think people are underestimating the runway Tesla has, here. Tesla didn't even die in 2008. Now, they have a huge customer base, two other high-end car lines that are themselves doing well, and an enormous amount of goodwill plus a big moat (for charging in particular, at least in the US). Not only that, but SpaceX is doing fantastically well unlike in 2008. I think the hardcore bears are just plain wrong, here. I don't know whether or not Tesla is over-valued (above my pay grade, and I'm not invested anyway), but it's hard to make the case that Tesla is worse off now than in 2008.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

aphextron 9y ago

>With a Bolt, there are places that you just can’t go. This just isn't true, check plugshare.com. It is now possible to drive cross-country in any EV with fast charging.

emusan 9y ago
That's not entirely true. There are no CCS DC fast chargers (the type the bolt uses) in much of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and North/South Dakota. You might be able to drive from Seattle to NYC but you'd have to drive pretty far out of your way to do it. Super chargers are available in all of those states, making any cross country driving in that area significantly faster and easier.
delive 9y ago
"Can't go" is probably the wrong term, but rather it's not very practical without a Tesla. "fast-charging" just isn't that fast in the US for non-tesla setups. 50kW max (which you don't normally get, usually it's something less) requires you to stop for at least an hour every 2-3 hours in a Bolt. Add in winter conditions and driving at the usual ~75MPH and it gets worse than that. I wouldn't attempt any trip longer than ~200 miles in anything but a Tesla because even the superchargers at 130kW make it just ~bearable once the supercharger novelty wears off.

WorldMaker 9y ago

There are non-Tesla DC superchargers in the US, but yes, the network of those chargers is much less reliable and less well planned in the US. (Versus Europe which maps show a much more thorough ChaDeMo network than the US, which is arguably accountable solely to relative population densities of the continents and Tesla's US-first market focus.) ChaDeMo could still catch up with the right gumption (the rest of the auto manufacturers teaming up, for instance), and there's still a lot of talk about how the two "standards" are easily interoperable with simple adapters (and Tesla has a Tesla-to-ChaDeMo adapter, but so far as I'm aware no one has yet to negotiate for a ChaDeMo-to-Tesla adapter to be sold; Tesla is in a position of strength for now so hard to blame Tesla on hedging that position a bit in the US). At least it looks like the different "winners" in the US versus Europe might keep the game competitive in the current term.