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I know, I know this is anecdotal 'evidence'. I happen to be 21 which fits me right in this generation and the main reason this occurs is due to parenting. My p

I know, I know this is anecdotal 'evidence'. I happen to be 21 which fits me right in this generation and the main reason this occurs is due to parenting. My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17. By that time I was completely and utterly addicted to computing to just let go and 'hang out'. As a matter in fact most of my friends are online rather than 4 real friends in real life. It seems like people in my age group had parents that would rather have their child stare at a screen than experience the world. Just my two cents.

abledon 9y ago
and whats crazy for this generation is thats the age people are supposed to most easily make their friends to bring them into the later stages of life. https://thewalrus.ca/the-science-of-loneliness/#.WkqJdEldy2w.twitter https://thewalrus.ca/the-science-of-loneliness/#.WkqJdEldy2w...
Pigo 9y ago
I think you have to factor in how much parents mold a kid into who they are. But I also went out to bonfires and snuck out to parties in spite of my parents. Knowing the hammer was going to drop when I got home just made me enjoy it even more. The little bit of social media that eventually showed up was mostly about finding out where the party was, and finding that cute girl you met there afterwards.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
the-dude 9y ago
Here you have a 'counterdote' : I am 43. After the first year of high school ( I was 13 ), we were allowed to travel to the other side of the country by train, sleep in a youth hostel and return at the end of the next day. This is NL, the other side of the country is only 350km. When we tell younger friends, they refuse to believe.
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  ok, but NL has like zero crime, so it doesn't seem like a big deal
  - the-dude 9y ago
    True, we have no police either.
    - harlanji 9y ago
      Lao Tzu sees a correlation. I'm 32, and my boundaries gradually increased from "the front yard, ask to go across the street" to "the street, ask to go around the block or park" etc. I lived in urban South Minneapolis, so not rough but not gentle... enough to build habitual awareness. We were a roving pack of 5+ kids at a given time, as many as 12 or so. I addicted myself to computer screens against my parents' wishes (they prefer TV), although if not for screens I'd probably do as my vice principal said and "flip [him] a good burger someday". There were ample police and one possible abduction attempt outside with my cousin while very young, sooo...
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    why am I getting all these downvotes? clearly, it's much safer for a teenager to ride the train in the Netherlands from one end to the other, than to do a similar thing in Chicago, let's say. So, yeah, it's not that impressive.
    - vasilipupkin 9y ago
      so why more downvotes? can someone explain to me the logic of what exactly you are disagreeing with?
      - jjawssd 9y ago
        Don't take it personally. You won't get many warm replies from American city dwellers for pointing out the failures of their communities.
glitcher 9y ago
I tend to agree with you. Although I also don't have any hard evidence, it seems to me that growing up in the 80's, there was far less parental supervision of kids then there is now. In the summertime during school break, even as early as elementary school probably 3rd grade, we would take off on our bikes and roam without any supervision. As long as we were home by sundown we wouldn't be in any trouble.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  This is definitely true, and driven in part by media-driven hysteria that has led to the decades of the perception that child abduction and similar child targeting crimes are on the rise, while the reverse has been the case.
  - thwiv 9y ago
    I mean, it could be that child abduction is falling because the media warns parents and they all keep better watch of their children.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      It could be, though it was falling for a couple decades before the media attention started driving the widespread belief that it was increasing, and the behavior changed that resulted from that belief.
      - mrguyorama 9y ago
        There's also the fact that children are typically hurt by people they know, not strangers
        thousandautumns 9y ago
        Again, its hard to separate that phenomenon from potentially confounding effects. Is the fact that children are typically hurt by people they know the result of parents being reluctant to let their kids out on the street by themselves, thereby limiting the opportunities for potential strangers to harm them?
pixelpp 9y ago
Agreed. My parents I guess just did not have time? I have no idea, I was just always home in front of a computer. Thankfully I was actually learning code, and stuff. I was a console gamer, not a PC gamer. My PC was cheap, and could not hang lol
taway20171214 9y ago
i'm not really sure that follows. i'm 35, and grew up in the 80s and 90s. i also wasn't 'allowed' to do a lot of things, but did them anyway along with my friends, and endured the consequences, simply because there was nothing else to do at home. the internet didn't make a real impact on most teens until at least 1998 or 1999. i think today teens just have the option of hanging out virtually so they never push the boundaries.
itsmillertime4u 9y ago
I think you are right with this too. I several friends and coworkers which are afraid to let the kid ride their bike through a neighborhood, play ball in the field, or roam the mall with a parent present. I'm starting to see this starting to flip though as more and more kids are having cellphones, which seem to give the parents more insight on where their kids are, and give them an avenue of getting hold of them when they need to.
julianh95 9y ago
Agreed. Just turned 22 this past October. I had a very similar experience in that I couldn't go somewhere unless my mother had met their parents (which rarely happened) and like yourself I was hooked to my tech. It has payed dividends career wise but I didn't get to be too social growing up.
- JCSato 9y ago
  Basically same deal here.
ashark 9y ago
If your parents had eliminated screens when you were very young (including theirs) save maybe one publicly-placed crappy terminal for wikipedia or looking up business hours or maps or learning you some programming or whatever, but loosened the reigns on hang-outs and travel, do you think you'd have still felt isolated because all your friends were still online most of the time? Asking as a parent with three young kids who's seeing practically no benefit to ubiquitous screens at this point, and lots of bad things about them, and trying to figure out how to navigate this brave new world while screwing these kids up as little as possible.
- quadrangle 9y ago
  I can say this: you aren't alone! I'm in the exact same boat. Ironically, if we can coordinate those of us who "get it" on this issue, maybe we can organize at least some spaces and communities where kids can interact free of screens and have friends etc. About the most important org any parent should know about and support: http://commercialfreechildhood.org/ http://commercialfreechildhood.org/
- kenning 9y ago
  Some research suggests excessive restriction on screen use may be worse, and it's not abnormal for boys to use devices more than girls http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-screen-time-guidelines-too-restrictive-according-new-research http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-scree...
  - gowld 9y ago
    The article drums that line, but the research cited says that screen time is irrelevant. They also didn't measure screen time, they relied on parents self-reporting which may be very high or low (reflecting parental self-image,not actual screen time). And the research didn't look at long-term effects, only short-term. And it waved off that high screen time may be merely correlated to poverty and unengaged parenting, not literally strictly screen time. The research isn't an endorsement to let little kids stare at tablets all day.
Eric_WVGG 9y ago
I’m reminded of the under-25-set reacting to the Stranger Things children just sort of running around unsupervised as “unrealistic.” Nope, that was how we rolled.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > that was how we rolled Speaking of rolling, that's what bikes were for. Running around unsupervised in the neighborhood. I'm not sure what kids do with bikes today. Or if they even get bikes.
  - magic_beans 9y ago
    They sure do get scooters, at least in New York. Literally every single child over 5 has one.
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      Those scooters are to help the five year olds keep up with you while you walk about town for the day. The alternatives include taking more taxis or getting a stroller for your five year old. They don't exactly serve the same purpose as a bike for a 10-year-old who lives in a cul-de-sac.
- snowwindwaves 9y ago
  My parents are baby boomers and they said there were just kids everywhere when they grew up. Every house on the street had at least two. Kids went outside to play. Parents had real perspective on the dangers and risks in life after living through ww2 and a kid falling out of a tree was not a concern.
  - ravenstine 9y ago
    Growing up in the 90's, there were far more kids playing outside. Even in the early 2000's, I used to remark how kids aren't getting out much anymore. Now there are articles about this phenomenon that are being taken seriously, so I guess I was right.
JoeDaDude 9y ago
Also somewhat anecdotal, but in Japan kids are given freedom to the other extreme [1]. [1] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/09/why-are-little-kids-in-japan-so-independent/407590/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/09/why-are-littl...
stcredzero 9y ago
My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17. My father used to range all around Seoul as a grade school aged kid. I used to wander 2 miles out in the woods with my friends and my sister at that age in the middle of winter. A coworker of mine used to range even farther at that age. We had lots of time practicing looking after ourselves and being independent. I remember facilitating a class with grade school aged kids, where the kids were given stations of a "starship." What would you expect a boy to do if given the weapons station of a starship? Blow something up? At least press some buttons? No, this boy just sat there meekly awaiting instruction. Something is deeply wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TnwC29_oyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TnwC29_oyI
- gowld 9y ago
  You met one kids who was well-behaved and respectful of the teacher, and shy, that's deeply wrong" ? And you contrast that against Asian kids being wild and healthy? http://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/yl/1003/100306.html http://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publication... "Appropriate behavior includes learning how to be reserved, cooperative, and supportive of the group."
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    You met one kids who was well-behaved and respectful of the teacher, and shy, that's deeply wrong"? Not at all. My comment is not about being respectful. My comment is about how that kid had no curiosity and initiative. In fact, that kid was commanded to figure out his interface. Nothing. He would do nothing without adult instruction.
- thousandautumns 9y ago
  I don't understand what you think is wrong with the kid awaiting instruction. Sounds like a kid who has some sense of self-control, which is a positive and not a negative.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
659087 9y ago
> My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17 The sad thing is, your story seems to be the rule and not the exception these days. I fear for a future run by people who grew up being constantly sheltered and hidden away from the world around them, while being "raised" by Facebook/Google/etc. I hope these parents are prepared to keep taking care of their "kids" well into their 30s, because no kid who was kept locked up until age 18 is going to be anywhere near prepared to venture out on their own before then.
Symbiote 9y ago
> My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17. My parents were early adopters of this, about 20 years ago. They wanted me to be 15-16. I don't remember exactly, since by that point I was well practised at lying about why I'd be late home from school, who I'd be with, etc, so it didn't make much difference. Age 10, my friend's parents let him take the public bus home alone (like most parents, I think). Mine didn't, and I didn't like being in the 2-3 kids waiting at the school for my mum to collect me, especially as she was always late. So there was "computer club" on Wednesdays, "robot club" on Fridays, and "technology club" erratically. They were (or had been) real after-school clubs, so I'd sometimes show up for a few minutes, in case my parents asked a teacher about it. Mostly I'd spend the hour walking around the weirder streets in the city. (Unusual example: going to the fetish/bondage with my friend so he could buy the net shirt to dress up like the main character in Rocky Horror.) Weekends were more difficult, it needed good co-operation from friends and their parents. Essentially, by restricting my independence far beyond the average of my peers, I lost a huge amount of trust and respect for my parents. This has still not recovered.
nine_k 9y ago
> most of my friends are online rather than 4 real friends in real life I think it's time to stop thinking of online as something less real than meatspace, and online friends as somehow inferior to face-to-face friends. (Cue copious evidence of amazing friendships and happy marriages started online.)
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
  How people find online communities that aren't so terrible that loneliness is preferable is beyond me. Of course, that's also true of meatspace communities, so maybe the problem is just me.
  - nine_k 9y ago
    My recipe is trivial: look for people who are clearly brighter than me, and follow them; continue recursively with their friends as you get introduced. This gave me a few brilliant real-life friends who I first had met back in the day e.g. on LiveJournal when it was still alive. Heck, I met my wife online, and proposed online, back in 20th century. We're still happily together.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
      Problem is that people clearly brighter than me are not easy to come by. ...wait, that sounds like I mean that I think I'm really super smart. That isn't the case, I just don't meet many people, and those that I do meet I don't think are clearly brighter than me. The ones that are, usually don't really seem interested in being friends, so whatever. Turns out these things aren't so simple as random people on the internet claim.
      - nine_k 9y ago
        It's understandable. My method is actively see more people; online it's much simpler. Then get an idea of their interests, and if we share some of them, to try to communicate regarding these things. Soon enough you are somehow acquainted with a number of smart people. Even if few will become your friends, you keep learning from them, and keep getting leads to other potentially interesting people. Try to frame it as an engineering task of a graph traversal optimization. Also, you have to be open; no people are going to check all boxes. Limit the filter to really important stuff.
mnm1 9y ago
I grew up in the 90's like this after my family moved to the US, coming from a culture that was the complete opposite, where I went anywhere in the city at seven years old by myself. I figured it was just because my parents were super paranoid immigrants who went through hell back home and for years to get to the US. I know what you say is anecdotal, but I too have seen it in some of my other friends' families also. It saddens me to no end that this has potentially become the new norm here. It really borders on child abuse, IMO, and causes me to question the values of a society which encourages and even enforces such disgusting, shameful treatment of kids.
- pwaai 9y ago
  When I was like 5 or 6 we roamed freely in South Korea during the early 90s and when we came to Canada, we still used to hang out in the apartment complexes, playing hockey, riding bicycles, building tree forts....looking back we lived in a notorious low class white ghetto with regular police & k9 units with few attempted home invasions...it just got worse as we neared year 2000 and past...Gang became a fad and by then we stopped hanging out as a whole...even walking to school sometimes felt a bit unnerving because my friends would be targeted by ethnic affiliation. I understand why parents don't want their kids out in environments like that. If I have kids it's going to be a struggle to let them out into that scary world...but growing up in the ghetto doesn't come without life lessons.
rabboRubble 9y ago
My cousin had a similar upbringing experience 30 years ago. At that time, we called it emotionally abusive as the micromanagement was accompanied by an unforgiving parental style. When the chains were finally lifted, the parents found they had the exact type of person they raised, one who ran from them and ignored them at every opportunity.
e40 9y ago
My son is 17 now, and for years I begged him to go hang out with friends. Didn't want to. He wanted to "meet" them online in games every Fri/Sat night (the nights he was allowed to play video games). I thought about cutting off the video games, but it was his only form of socialization, so I was really hesitant to try that experiment. I have had dozens of conversations with him, over the years, about the possible negative side effects of not meeting people in person (for later in life, when patterns solidify). Now, he does go to parties with his online friends a few times a year. There are usually 8-10 of them there and they have pizza and watch movies. Usually is a bday party (but he never wants to do this for his bday). I've given up trying to influence him (given his age). He is very mature in most ways. I'm just worried about the future.
sam-mueller 9y ago
There's another part of the trend that is less obvious: the social giants haven't focused on making it easier to hang out with friends IRL. On the surface that statement might seem counterintuitive; after all, if I want to message a friend for lunch, I can just DM them with messenger/imsg/snap/insta. When I want to invite a bunch of friends to my super bowl party, just create a fb event. Simple right? Not quite. There are a million opportunities in between to have genuine, in-person connections with friends that don't necessarily fall into those two categories. Just to prove it, here's a thought exercise. Take your top 5 friends, local people you'd be most inclined to hang with on any given day. Now ask yourself, what are they doing tonight on this random Wednesday? If you had trouble answering this question, you're not alone. We're all so busy nowadays, it's become harder to line up those fleeting moments of availability that we do have. Now think about how many intersecting pockets of free time amongst your friends that were probably missed in the past month. Some of these opportunities could've been a quick cup of coffee together, swinging by to watch Isaiah's debut with the Cavs, or last minute studying for mid terms. Coordination has to become easier, because everything else competing for your free time has become easier. This is one of the primary reasons why I left Yahoo and founded a new startup called Blink. We're creating an app that bridges the gap between your phone and your real life. We are eventually planning to do a "Show HN" to give folks a preview of what we're building, but I couldn't help but notice quite a few here (westmeal, ktta, joaomacp, julianh95 and others) who are both young in age and have quite a sophisticated understanding of how our social trends are evolving. If you're under 25, we'd really love to get your feedback on where we are going with Blink! You can check it out here (iOS only): https://blinkwith.me/hn-teens-dont-party https://blinkwith.me/hn-teens-dont-party We're also looking for a junior iOS engineer who's as passionate about this stuff as we are, but that's also an entirely different HN post altogether!
tluyben2 9y ago
I am double your age; I was at that time, and am again, addicted to computing. I thought, until I was 17, that leaving my computer and programming env was a frivolous waste of my time (my parents indeed echoed that idea). Then I got interested in playing the guitar and went to uni; I spent around 6 years partying and playing in bands. I would not have missed that for the world as it did wonders for my social skills, but, I can imagine it is considered waste of time by many. For my brain (luckily I had uni) it was not very good and for my wallet it was very bad. If your parents pay their last money to get you through a good highschool and college (in NL this was mostly free or very cheap compared) I can especially imagine that feeling. I do think that it is was worth it for me, but then again, I would say that. Also I now do not believe everything has to have ‘worth’ anymore (I did then and I wanted to become a pro musician,but found it monotonous and annoying even as an amateur; every day the same songs...). Or maybe doing nothing or frivolous things has it’s own worth.

abledon 9y ago

and whats crazy for this generation is thats the age people are supposed to most easily make their friends to bring them into the later stages of life. https://thewalrus.ca/the-science-of-loneliness/#.WkqJdEldy2w.twitter https://thewalrus.ca/the-science-of-loneliness/#.WkqJdEldy2w...

Pigo 9y ago

I think you have to factor in how much parents mold a kid into who they are. But I also went out to bonfires and snuck out to parties in spite of my parents. Knowing the hammer was going to drop when I got home just made me enjoy it even more. The little bit of social media that eventually showed up was mostly about finding out where the party was, and finding that cute girl you met there afterwards.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

the-dude 9y ago

Here you have a 'counterdote' : I am 43. After the first year of high school ( I was 13 ), we were allowed to travel to the other side of the country by train, sleep in a youth hostel and return at the end of the next day. This is NL, the other side of the country is only 350km. When we tell younger friends, they refuse to believe.

vasilipupkin 9y ago
ok, but NL has like zero crime, so it doesn't seem like a big deal
- the-dude 9y ago
  True, we have no police either.
  - harlanji 9y ago
    Lao Tzu sees a correlation. I'm 32, and my boundaries gradually increased from "the front yard, ask to go across the street" to "the street, ask to go around the block or park" etc. I lived in urban South Minneapolis, so not rough but not gentle... enough to build habitual awareness. We were a roving pack of 5+ kids at a given time, as many as 12 or so. I addicted myself to computer screens against my parents' wishes (they prefer TV), although if not for screens I'd probably do as my vice principal said and "flip [him] a good burger someday". There were ample police and one possible abduction attempt outside with my cousin while very young, sooo...
- vasilipupkin 9y ago
  why am I getting all these downvotes? clearly, it's much safer for a teenager to ride the train in the Netherlands from one end to the other, than to do a similar thing in Chicago, let's say. So, yeah, it's not that impressive.
  - vasilipupkin 9y ago
    so why more downvotes? can someone explain to me the logic of what exactly you are disagreeing with?
    - jjawssd 9y ago
      Don't take it personally. You won't get many warm replies from American city dwellers for pointing out the failures of their communities.

glitcher 9y ago

I tend to agree with you. Although I also don't have any hard evidence, it seems to me that growing up in the 80's, there was far less parental supervision of kids then there is now. In the summertime during school break, even as early as elementary school probably 3rd grade, we would take off on our bikes and roam without any supervision. As long as we were home by sundown we wouldn't be in any trouble.

dragonwriter 9y ago
This is definitely true, and driven in part by media-driven hysteria that has led to the decades of the perception that child abduction and similar child targeting crimes are on the rise, while the reverse has been the case.
- thwiv 9y ago
  I mean, it could be that child abduction is falling because the media warns parents and they all keep better watch of their children.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    It could be, though it was falling for a couple decades before the media attention started driving the widespread belief that it was increasing, and the behavior changed that resulted from that belief.
    - mrguyorama 9y ago
      There's also the fact that children are typically hurt by people they know, not strangers
      - thousandautumns 9y ago
        Again, its hard to separate that phenomenon from potentially confounding effects. Is the fact that children are typically hurt by people they know the result of parents being reluctant to let their kids out on the street by themselves, thereby limiting the opportunities for potential strangers to harm them?

pixelpp 9y ago

Agreed. My parents I guess just did not have time? I have no idea, I was just always home in front of a computer. Thankfully I was actually learning code, and stuff. I was a console gamer, not a PC gamer. My PC was cheap, and could not hang lol

taway20171214 9y ago

i'm not really sure that follows. i'm 35, and grew up in the 80s and 90s. i also wasn't 'allowed' to do a lot of things, but did them anyway along with my friends, and endured the consequences, simply because there was nothing else to do at home. the internet didn't make a real impact on most teens until at least 1998 or 1999. i think today teens just have the option of hanging out virtually so they never push the boundaries.

itsmillertime4u 9y ago

I think you are right with this too. I several friends and coworkers which are afraid to let the kid ride their bike through a neighborhood, play ball in the field, or roam the mall with a parent present. I'm starting to see this starting to flip though as more and more kids are having cellphones, which seem to give the parents more insight on where their kids are, and give them an avenue of getting hold of them when they need to.

julianh95 9y ago

Agreed. Just turned 22 this past October. I had a very similar experience in that I couldn't go somewhere unless my mother had met their parents (which rarely happened) and like yourself I was hooked to my tech. It has payed dividends career wise but I didn't get to be too social growing up.

JCSato 9y ago
Basically same deal here.

ashark 9y ago

If your parents had eliminated screens when you were very young (including theirs) save maybe one publicly-placed crappy terminal for wikipedia or looking up business hours or maps or learning you some programming or whatever, but loosened the reigns on hang-outs and travel, do you think you'd have still felt isolated because all your friends were still online most of the time? Asking as a parent with three young kids who's seeing practically no benefit to ubiquitous screens at this point, and lots of bad things about them, and trying to figure out how to navigate this brave new world while screwing these kids up as little as possible.

quadrangle 9y ago
I can say this: you aren't alone! I'm in the exact same boat. Ironically, if we can coordinate those of us who "get it" on this issue, maybe we can organize at least some spaces and communities where kids can interact free of screens and have friends etc. About the most important org any parent should know about and support: http://commercialfreechildhood.org/ http://commercialfreechildhood.org/
kenning 9y ago
Some research suggests excessive restriction on screen use may be worse, and it's not abnormal for boys to use devices more than girls http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-screen-time-guidelines-too-restrictive-according-new-research http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-12-14-children%E2%80%99s-scree...
- gowld 9y ago
  The article drums that line, but the research cited says that screen time is irrelevant. They also didn't measure screen time, they relied on parents self-reporting which may be very high or low (reflecting parental self-image,not actual screen time). And the research didn't look at long-term effects, only short-term. And it waved off that high screen time may be merely correlated to poverty and unengaged parenting, not literally strictly screen time. The research isn't an endorsement to let little kids stare at tablets all day.

Eric_WVGG 9y ago

I’m reminded of the under-25-set reacting to the Stranger Things children just sort of running around unsupervised as “unrealistic.” Nope, that was how we rolled.

humanrebar 9y ago
> that was how we rolled Speaking of rolling, that's what bikes were for. Running around unsupervised in the neighborhood. I'm not sure what kids do with bikes today. Or if they even get bikes.
- magic_beans 9y ago
  They sure do get scooters, at least in New York. Literally every single child over 5 has one.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    Those scooters are to help the five year olds keep up with you while you walk about town for the day. The alternatives include taking more taxis or getting a stroller for your five year old. They don't exactly serve the same purpose as a bike for a 10-year-old who lives in a cul-de-sac.
snowwindwaves 9y ago
My parents are baby boomers and they said there were just kids everywhere when they grew up. Every house on the street had at least two. Kids went outside to play. Parents had real perspective on the dangers and risks in life after living through ww2 and a kid falling out of a tree was not a concern.
- ravenstine 9y ago
  Growing up in the 90's, there were far more kids playing outside. Even in the early 2000's, I used to remark how kids aren't getting out much anymore. Now there are articles about this phenomenon that are being taken seriously, so I guess I was right.

JoeDaDude 9y ago

Also somewhat anecdotal, but in Japan kids are given freedom to the other extreme [1]. [1] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/09/why-are-little-kids-in-japan-so-independent/407590/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2015/09/why-are-littl...

stcredzero 9y ago

My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17. My father used to range all around Seoul as a grade school aged kid. I used to wander 2 miles out in the woods with my friends and my sister at that age in the middle of winter. A coworker of mine used to range even farther at that age. We had lots of time practicing looking after ourselves and being independent. I remember facilitating a class with grade school aged kids, where the kids were given stations of a "starship." What would you expect a boy to do if given the weapons station of a starship? Blow something up? At least press some buttons? No, this boy just sat there meekly awaiting instruction. Something is deeply wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TnwC29_oyI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TnwC29_oyI

gowld 9y ago
You met one kids who was well-behaved and respectful of the teacher, and shy, that's deeply wrong" ? And you contrast that against Asian kids being wild and healthy? http://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publications/yl/1003/100306.html http://www.socialstudies.org/sites/default/files/publication... "Appropriate behavior includes learning how to be reserved, cooperative, and supportive of the group."
- stcredzero 9y ago
  You met one kids who was well-behaved and respectful of the teacher, and shy, that's deeply wrong"? Not at all. My comment is not about being respectful. My comment is about how that kid had no curiosity and initiative. In fact, that kid was commanded to figure out his interface. Nothing. He would do nothing without adult instruction.
thousandautumns 9y ago
I don't understand what you think is wrong with the kid awaiting instruction. Sounds like a kid who has some sense of self-control, which is a positive and not a negative.
- stcredzero 9y ago

659087 9y ago

> My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17 The sad thing is, your story seems to be the rule and not the exception these days. I fear for a future run by people who grew up being constantly sheltered and hidden away from the world around them, while being "raised" by Facebook/Google/etc. I hope these parents are prepared to keep taking care of their "kids" well into their 30s, because no kid who was kept locked up until age 18 is going to be anywhere near prepared to venture out on their own before then.

Symbiote 9y ago

> My parents wouldn't let me go _anywhere_ by myself until I was at least 17. My parents were early adopters of this, about 20 years ago. They wanted me to be 15-16. I don't remember exactly, since by that point I was well practised at lying about why I'd be late home from school, who I'd be with, etc, so it didn't make much difference. Age 10, my friend's parents let him take the public bus home alone (like most parents, I think). Mine didn't, and I didn't like being in the 2-3 kids waiting at the school for my mum to collect me, especially as she was always late. So there was "computer club" on Wednesdays, "robot club" on Fridays, and "technology club" erratically. They were (or had been) real after-school clubs, so I'd sometimes show up for a few minutes, in case my parents asked a teacher about it. Mostly I'd spend the hour walking around the weirder streets in the city. (Unusual example: going to the fetish/bondage with my friend so he could buy the net shirt to dress up like the main character in Rocky Horror.) Weekends were more difficult, it needed good co-operation from friends and their parents. Essentially, by restricting my independence far beyond the average of my peers, I lost a huge amount of trust and respect for my parents. This has still not recovered.

nine_k 9y ago

> most of my friends are online rather than 4 real friends in real life I think it's time to stop thinking of online as something less real than meatspace, and online friends as somehow inferior to face-to-face friends. (Cue copious evidence of amazing friendships and happy marriages started online.)

AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
How people find online communities that aren't so terrible that loneliness is preferable is beyond me. Of course, that's also true of meatspace communities, so maybe the problem is just me.
- nine_k 9y ago
  My recipe is trivial: look for people who are clearly brighter than me, and follow them; continue recursively with their friends as you get introduced. This gave me a few brilliant real-life friends who I first had met back in the day e.g. on LiveJournal when it was still alive. Heck, I met my wife online, and proposed online, back in 20th century. We're still happily together.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
    Problem is that people clearly brighter than me are not easy to come by. ...wait, that sounds like I mean that I think I'm really super smart. That isn't the case, I just don't meet many people, and those that I do meet I don't think are clearly brighter than me. The ones that are, usually don't really seem interested in being friends, so whatever. Turns out these things aren't so simple as random people on the internet claim.
    - nine_k 9y ago
      It's understandable. My method is actively see more people; online it's much simpler. Then get an idea of their interests, and if we share some of them, to try to communicate regarding these things. Soon enough you are somehow acquainted with a number of smart people. Even if few will become your friends, you keep learning from them, and keep getting leads to other potentially interesting people. Try to frame it as an engineering task of a graph traversal optimization. Also, you have to be open; no people are going to check all boxes. Limit the filter to really important stuff.

mnm1 9y ago

I grew up in the 90's like this after my family moved to the US, coming from a culture that was the complete opposite, where I went anywhere in the city at seven years old by myself. I figured it was just because my parents were super paranoid immigrants who went through hell back home and for years to get to the US. I know what you say is anecdotal, but I too have seen it in some of my other friends' families also. It saddens me to no end that this has potentially become the new norm here. It really borders on child abuse, IMO, and causes me to question the values of a society which encourages and even enforces such disgusting, shameful treatment of kids.

pwaai 9y ago
When I was like 5 or 6 we roamed freely in South Korea during the early 90s and when we came to Canada, we still used to hang out in the apartment complexes, playing hockey, riding bicycles, building tree forts....looking back we lived in a notorious low class white ghetto with regular police & k9 units with few attempted home invasions...it just got worse as we neared year 2000 and past...Gang became a fad and by then we stopped hanging out as a whole...even walking to school sometimes felt a bit unnerving because my friends would be targeted by ethnic affiliation. I understand why parents don't want their kids out in environments like that. If I have kids it's going to be a struggle to let them out into that scary world...but growing up in the ghetto doesn't come without life lessons.

rabboRubble 9y ago

My cousin had a similar upbringing experience 30 years ago. At that time, we called it emotionally abusive as the micromanagement was accompanied by an unforgiving parental style. When the chains were finally lifted, the parents found they had the exact type of person they raised, one who ran from them and ignored them at every opportunity.

e40 9y ago

My son is 17 now, and for years I begged him to go hang out with friends. Didn't want to. He wanted to "meet" them online in games every Fri/Sat night (the nights he was allowed to play video games). I thought about cutting off the video games, but it was his only form of socialization, so I was really hesitant to try that experiment. I have had dozens of conversations with him, over the years, about the possible negative side effects of not meeting people in person (for later in life, when patterns solidify). Now, he does go to parties with his online friends a few times a year. There are usually 8-10 of them there and they have pizza and watch movies. Usually is a bday party (but he never wants to do this for his bday). I've given up trying to influence him (given his age). He is very mature in most ways. I'm just worried about the future.

sam-mueller 9y ago

There's another part of the trend that is less obvious: the social giants haven't focused on making it easier to hang out with friends IRL. On the surface that statement might seem counterintuitive; after all, if I want to message a friend for lunch, I can just DM them with messenger/imsg/snap/insta. When I want to invite a bunch of friends to my super bowl party, just create a fb event. Simple right? Not quite. There are a million opportunities in between to have genuine, in-person connections with friends that don't necessarily fall into those two categories. Just to prove it, here's a thought exercise. Take your top 5 friends, local people you'd be most inclined to hang with on any given day. Now ask yourself, what are they doing tonight on this random Wednesday? If you had trouble answering this question, you're not alone. We're all so busy nowadays, it's become harder to line up those fleeting moments of availability that we do have. Now think about how many intersecting pockets of free time amongst your friends that were probably missed in the past month. Some of these opportunities could've been a quick cup of coffee together, swinging by to watch Isaiah's debut with the Cavs, or last minute studying for mid terms. Coordination has to become easier, because everything else competing for your free time has become easier. This is one of the primary reasons why I left Yahoo and founded a new startup called Blink. We're creating an app that bridges the gap between your phone and your real life. We are eventually planning to do a "Show HN" to give folks a preview of what we're building, but I couldn't help but notice quite a few here (westmeal, ktta, joaomacp, julianh95 and others) who are both young in age and have quite a sophisticated understanding of how our social trends are evolving. If you're under 25, we'd really love to get your feedback on where we are going with Blink! You can check it out here (iOS only): https://blinkwith.me/hn-teens-dont-party https://blinkwith.me/hn-teens-dont-party We're also looking for a junior iOS engineer who's as passionate about this stuff as we are, but that's also an entirely different HN post altogether!

tluyben2 9y ago

I am double your age; I was at that time, and am again, addicted to computing. I thought, until I was 17, that leaving my computer and programming env was a frivolous waste of my time (my parents indeed echoed that idea). Then I got interested in playing the guitar and went to uni; I spent around 6 years partying and playing in bands. I would not have missed that for the world as it did wonders for my social skills, but, I can imagine it is considered waste of time by many. For my brain (luckily I had uni) it was not very good and for my wallet it was very bad. If your parents pay their last money to get you through a good highschool and college (in NL this was mostly free or very cheap compared) I can especially imagine that feeling. I do think that it is was worth it for me, but then again, I would say that. Also I now do not believe everything has to have ‘worth’ anymore (I did then and I wanted to become a pro musician,but found it monotonous and annoying even as an amateur; every day the same songs...). Or maybe doing nothing or frivolous things has it’s own worth.