8 ms·
Do two people doing the same job, with the same skills and the same experience get paid differently because of their gender? Its something I've never seen in my
by swarnie_ 9y ago
Do two people doing the same job, with the same skills and the same experience get paid differently because of their gender? Its something I've never seen in my professional life in the UK.
I've seen reports where men earn more if you take the entire working population in to account, but that seems more based on the jobs done rather then the respective genders.
- pjc50 9y agoHow often do you encounter people with exactly identical skills and experience? For that matter, how often do you know what your colleagues get paid? I'm used to environments where everyone is paid differently for essentially arbitrary reasons.
- swarnie_ 9y agoI've worked in environments where 6-8 people in a team have largely similar skill sets and all shared wage info. Not much difference besides how many end of year pay reviews they had stuck around to see. My experience is personal and anecdotal so largely meaningless by itself hence the question to a wider audience
- irpapakons 9y agoYes, there is both an adjusted and unadjusted gender pay gap.
- dmichulke 9y agoI always wonder - if there is such a huge gap, why don't folks just employ women, since they're cheaper and do the same work? Isn't that the question to be answered in order to really understand what's going on? Otherwise I bet I can always find, for any company, a subset of people that are underpaid relative to the rest, be it related to age, gender, race, sexual preferences, employment history, ZIP code, whatever.
- falcolas 9y agoThere isn't a huge gap, not for the same job/title combination (there are cases where the gap does exist for the same job, but it's typically less than 10%). The gap widely most widely reported, the 70% figure, is primarily caused because of the genders holding different jobs, where the average pay for female-dominated jobs is less than the average pay for male-dominated jobs.
- wrsh07 9y agoSo... this is light on details into their analysis, but Laszlo Block [formerly of Google - where I work fwiw], claimed "In 2015 we added 8,214 employees to Google. And the women we hired, on average, received a 30 percent bigger salary increase upon joining the company, compared to men." If you accepted his claim that Google does pay genders equitably, then this would indicate a large pay disparity outside of Google. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/04/29/how-the-whats-your-current-salary-question-hurts-the-gender-pay-gap/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2016/04...
- dragonwriter 9y ago> If you accepted his claim that Google does pay genders equitably, then this would indicate a large pay disparity outside of Google. Or it would indicate a successful outreach program at Google for women by which they were successful at getting qualified women not currently working in tech to apply; this doesn't necessarily imply a like-duties gender pay gap.
- collyw 9y agoCould it indicate discrimination against men at Google?
- falcolas 9y agoThere's a lot of variables which are not being taken into account there. If you hired a person from outside SV, and another from within SV, you immediately have a 40-50% difference in salary increases. Or, if you hire one person out of an advertising company and another out of a software company, the difference will be quite large. It's also a bit of a weasely statement - to quote Penn & Teller, they are lying with numbers - since it doesn't mention the current difference in wages.
- psychometry 9y agoYou have to be careful, though. It's possible to control for too many variables such that your set of confounders itself is a predictor of sex. This is a technique I've seen used by people who try to deny the existence of a pay gap. It's FUD.
- Anderkent 9y ago> set of confounders itself is a predictor of sex. This is a technique I've seen used by people who try to deny the existence of a pay gap. This doesn't seem invalid? If for example 'wanting to spend more time at home'/'cares about team fit more than salary' is a predictor of gender, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be excluded from analysis. What we care about is whether the pay difference is because of people treating women unfairly. If a different trait causes lower salaries in both men and women, but is more common among women, the problem is not a gender pay gap.
- irpapakons 9y agoThe unadjusted paygap is still caused by sexism.
- Anderkent 9y agoThat needs to be shown. There are many ways an unadjusted paygap might exist without any discrimination being involved - for example simpson's paradox.
- psychometry 9y agoThis is what I'm talking about: http://www.separatinghyperplanes.com/2014/12/no-you-cant-control-for-that.html http://www.separatinghyperplanes.com/2014/12/no-you-cant-con... https://www.vox.com/2014/4/9/5597392/fancy-math-cant-erase-the-gender-pay-gap https://www.vox.com/2014/4/9/5597392/fancy-math-cant-erase-t...
- Anderkent 9y agoThe second article I vaguely agree with, except that the fact that pay gap exists isn't really interesting - what is interesting is why it exists. For example suppose women on average don't care about money as much as men do, and take jobs with different benefits (like more free time). In such a situation, you would observe a gender pay gap. But the pay gap wouldn't be bad, or something that we need to fix. It would just be a difference in preferences, and a woman who does care about money as much as an average man could expect to earn as much as a man. The article itself talks about how a significant part of the gender pay gap is the higher willingness/better fit of men to take dangerous, difficult, but well paid jobs in natural resource extraction. This... sounds like not a problem to me?
- LandR 9y agoMy experience has mostly been people get paid what they can negotiate before they accept the job. I've seen people with the same job title have around 25%-50% difference in salary. Does this mean that negotiations in salary will go away ? It's not just salary either, some people might negotiate more holiday days, sick days, flexi-time etc than others.
- aceofspad4s 9y agoReddit banned salary negotiations because women were worse at negotiating.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- LandR 9y agoI can't tell if this would end up pulling down male salaries rather than pushing up female salaries?
- ensignavenger 9y agoIt just results in negotiations over what job title you get. At least that is what I would expect.
- rebeccaskinner 9y agoEvidence is that as more women enter a field, or start gaining visibility, salaries typically go down. This is why people assume "women choose lower paying roles" - the reality is that people see any jobs that women do as less valuable and compensation over time adjusts to meet that belief.
- jlebrech 9y agogender disparity can be because a female colleague might not ask for a pay rise as readily as a male.