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Okay let's take Norway as an example. It's a smaller country ofcourse, but there's no reason this can't scale. In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 m
by spiderfarmer 9y ago
Okay let's take Norway as an example. It's a smaller country ofcourse, but there's no reason this can't scale.
In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014.
That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.
On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.
Norway also has a relatively low level of crime compared to the US, according to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. The majority of crimes reported to police there are theft-related incidents, and violent crime is mostly confined to areas with drug trafficking and gang problems.
Based on that information, it's safe to assume Norway's criminal justice system is doing something right. Few citizens there go to prison, and those who do usually go only once. So how does Norway accomplish this feat? The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners.
- lr4444lr 9y agoThat doesn't at all convey to me what I'm trying to find out: would I wish to be tried in the Norwegian system if I were charged with a given crime rather than in the United States? Neither where would I prefer to carry out my sentence, nor where I think the socioeconomic factors that lead to crime are best prevented. Those are all worthwhile questions, to be clear, but not what I was getting at.
- spiderfarmer 9y agoBy refering to personal preference, you are ignoring my arguments and the issues at hand.
- ThomPete 9y agoWhy? You do that yourself "I prefer a justice system that takes their background into account and takes steps to improve the lives of these people."
- spiderfarmer 9y agoThat was an answer to his question, not my entire rebuttal.
- ThomPete 9y agoYour preference for a justice system is your rebuttal. You are discussing whether it's ok or not and you have rules for what you think is ok. That is exactly your rebuttal.
- lr4444lr 9y agoI'm ignoring your arguments because we're on a sub-tangent that I started on just one point of your comment - that our prison population is somehow evidence of our lack of freedom, and I would like to limit it to that in order to get some clarity on it. I have nothing to say on the other points. I may even totally agree with you on them. If you don't want to engage this specific point anymore, fine.
- ameister14 9y agoNorway isn't a great example because Norway is also far, far more culturally and economically homogeneous than the US, though that is changing. Bangladesh has an even lower incarceration rate, but its prisons are apparently horrifying places of routine human right abuse. Should that be the guide? Perhaps that can scale - half of the bottom 15 countries in terms of incarceration rate have histories of extreme human rights abuse but according to the crime information, their criminal justice system is doing something right - few citizens go to prison and most only go once.