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What's the Dutch perspective on American media?

by Fej 9y ago

spiderfarmer 9y ago
We don't watch much American (news) media, but our own journalists say they try to not directly quote the hyperpartisan, hyperbolic, fear-instilling American media but go to the source whenever possible.
w0utert 9y ago
>> What's the Dutch perspective on American media? My perspective on American media is that even though everyone has access to (mostly) unbiased, factual sources, quality investigative journalism, uncensored internet etc, for some reason a very large cross-section of the population willingly chooses to believe the partisan crap and plain and simple bullshit peddled by outlets like Fox News and (to a somewhat lesser degree) MSNBC. I regularly visit the US, and frankly I'm appalled by the downright evil crap that seems to be on 90% of the time on televisions everywhere in public. I would be thoroughly embarrassed if the situation at home would be even remotely comparable. And now you have a POTUS that actively promotes to make the situation even worse by labeling anything he dislikes as 'fake news', while at the same time spreading easily falsifiable information as truth. I really have no idea how the US got to this place. The problem is not that the US does not have free press, but there seems to be a level of partisanship that feeds this vicious cycle of misinformation, always putting the blame at the other side, and a total disregard for simple facts that things could be so much better for everyone if the two sides would actually try to work together and find compromises for once. The health care system is just an example of this. Even though there are countless examples of developed countries that have a much better system with significantly lower costs because of things like single-payer insurance, maximum tariffs, etc, somehow the american people don't want it 'because socialism' or whatever nonsensical argument based on the in-grained illusion of the 'American Dream' of a merit-based society where everyone decides their own fortune. Meanwhile social mobility in the US is among the lowest of all developed nations. The level of cognitive dissonance really is mind-blowing.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- frankc 9y ago
  I think what people in Europe don't appreciate about American healthcare is that the quality of care is a bi-modal (or maybe even more than 2 modes) distribution where a very large fraction of the population does in fact have the best access and quality of care in the world. On the other hand, there is a significant fraction of the population that has a lower overall access and quality of care. It is not irrational for the 40% to 70% (the fractions are debatable) of the population to not want to reduce their quality of care to average European care, which is in fact a lower standard for them.
  - w0utert 9y ago
    Right... According to the WHO [1] the US health care system scores first on exactly one metric, which is cost... It boggles the mind that someone could rationalize a healthcare system that leaves millions of people uninsured, bankrupts and destroys people unfortunate enough to attract even minor health problems, and results in higher costs than anywhere in the world as ‘better’ than ‘average European care’, because it is ‘bimodal’. What does that even mean, practically speaking? What does the US health care system offer the more fortunate citizens that you won’t have in, say, Japan, or Sweden, Malaysia, the Netherlands? Question: do you think people live longer in the US, compared to other countries? Die less of common illnesses? Can get treatments for covering the 99% most common health care needs that are available exclusively in the US? I don’t think so... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ra...
    - frankc 9y ago
      I think you completely missed what I said...you are again pointing at numbers that compare averages and I am saying that the averages are irrelevant. If half the people do great and half do terrible, the avergage will look merely ok but the people doing great aren't irrational to want to continue to do great. How is that in any way in conflict with WHO metrics?
Feniks 9y ago
We love Netflix and HBO. I mean we KNOW that the US is a sinking ship and that in order for our continued economic success a pivot to China/Asia is necessary. But American TV shows are just too good.
- ameister14 9y ago
  You're aware that China's economy is propped up in large part by their government and is enabling speculative investments far and away above what happened between 2000 and 2007, right? Not exactly where I'd want to tie my economic hopes.

What's the Dutch perspective on American media?

by Fej 9y ago

What's the Dutch perspective on American media?

We don't watch much American (news) media, but our own journalists say they try to not directly quote the hyperpartisan, hyperbolic, fear-instilling American media but go to the source whenever possible.

w0utert 9y ago

>> What's the Dutch perspective on American media? My perspective on American media is that even though everyone has access to (mostly) unbiased, factual sources, quality investigative journalism, uncensored internet etc, for some reason a very large cross-section of the population willingly chooses to believe the partisan crap and plain and simple bullshit peddled by outlets like Fox News and (to a somewhat lesser degree) MSNBC. I regularly visit the US, and frankly I'm appalled by the downright evil crap that seems to be on 90% of the time on televisions everywhere in public. I would be thoroughly embarrassed if the situation at home would be even remotely comparable. And now you have a POTUS that actively promotes to make the situation even worse by labeling anything he dislikes as 'fake news', while at the same time spreading easily falsifiable information as truth. I really have no idea how the US got to this place. The problem is not that the US does not have free press, but there seems to be a level of partisanship that feeds this vicious cycle of misinformation, always putting the blame at the other side, and a total disregard for simple facts that things could be so much better for everyone if the two sides would actually try to work together and find compromises for once. The health care system is just an example of this. Even though there are countless examples of developed countries that have a much better system with significantly lower costs because of things like single-payer insurance, maximum tariffs, etc, somehow the american people don't want it 'because socialism' or whatever nonsensical argument based on the in-grained illusion of the 'American Dream' of a merit-based society where everyone decides their own fortune. Meanwhile social mobility in the US is among the lowest of all developed nations. The level of cognitive dissonance really is mind-blowing.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
frankc 9y ago
I think what people in Europe don't appreciate about American healthcare is that the quality of care is a bi-modal (or maybe even more than 2 modes) distribution where a very large fraction of the population does in fact have the best access and quality of care in the world. On the other hand, there is a significant fraction of the population that has a lower overall access and quality of care. It is not irrational for the 40% to 70% (the fractions are debatable) of the population to not want to reduce their quality of care to average European care, which is in fact a lower standard for them.
- w0utert 9y ago
  Right... According to the WHO [1] the US health care system scores first on exactly one metric, which is cost... It boggles the mind that someone could rationalize a healthcare system that leaves millions of people uninsured, bankrupts and destroys people unfortunate enough to attract even minor health problems, and results in higher costs than anywhere in the world as ‘better’ than ‘average European care’, because it is ‘bimodal’. What does that even mean, practically speaking? What does the US health care system offer the more fortunate citizens that you won’t have in, say, Japan, or Sweden, Malaysia, the Netherlands? Question: do you think people live longer in the US, compared to other countries? Die less of common illnesses? Can get treatments for covering the 99% most common health care needs that are available exclusively in the US? I don’t think so... [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems_in_2000 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ra...
  - frankc 9y ago
    I think you completely missed what I said...you are again pointing at numbers that compare averages and I am saying that the averages are irrelevant. If half the people do great and half do terrible, the avergage will look merely ok but the people doing great aren't irrational to want to continue to do great. How is that in any way in conflict with WHO metrics?

Feniks 9y ago

We love Netflix and HBO. I mean we KNOW that the US is a sinking ship and that in order for our continued economic success a pivot to China/Asia is necessary. But American TV shows are just too good.

ameister14 9y ago
You're aware that China's economy is propped up in large part by their government and is enabling speculative investments far and away above what happened between 2000 and 2007, right? Not exactly where I'd want to tie my economic hopes.