5 ms·

The competitive Super Smash (Melee) community still uses them, and the good ones (like the trinitrons) are highly coveted.

dagw 9y ago
Why? What actual competitive advantage do they offer? Or is it more an abstract look and feel thing.
- robin_reala 9y ago
  Latency. A purely analogue path gets the signal to the screen quicker (in some cases multiple frames faster) which can make a serious difference in the fighting game community where input timing is typically calculated at the frame level.
- hoorayimhelping 9y ago
  Modern LCDs have a display lag that CRTs don't. Hardcore fighting games' units of measurement for moves are frames (as in frames per second). E.g. "it takes this character 17 frames to execute this move, and you have 5 frames from the start of the animation to block it." Under those conditions, a 5ms delay matters.
- Sholmesy 9y ago
  The other comments have hit the nail on the head. The game is considered "very fast" mechanically so a slight change in screen rendering is a big deal. People claim they can see the difference between a CRT vs LED with the same input latency, in how they differ in rendering the frame (I don't know technical details on this, but they do "feel" different). It's an interesting scenario that the community is actively trying to migrate from.
  - vinceguidry 9y ago
    I still remember playing a PSX for the first time. It felt so... slow. I complained to my cousin about it, 3 years younger than me. He made fun of me. When it was finally my money to spend on games, I bought an N64. The only thing the Playstation seemed capable of was RPGs. And with the sole exception of FF7, the SNES ones were better.
- samfriedman 9y ago
  As far as I know only pre-digital game consoles provide a competitive advantage with CRT TVs. In Melee, a fairly "fast" game in terms of inputs and timing, the Gamecube/Wii can produce noticeable input lag when connected to a digital display due to the step of converting the signal. Analog CRTs alleviate this and are thus preferred for practically all levels of competitive play. Senior members of the Smash Melee competitive community have been known to keep their own personal stores of CRTs, making organizing large events easier. I've known a few people in the scene to prefer these Trinitron TVs specifically, usually because the colors "pop" more, making it easier to discern movement on the screen. Or so they tell me. For more modern consoles that output digital signals, no conversion is needed and you will typically see LED TVs being used instead. Interestingly, Smash Bros. Melee also has a PC-based online community, where Gamecube emulators are used to play a modified version of the game over the internet. On an emulator, it's actually possible to provide less input lag than on a real console + CRT. http://smashladder.com http://smashladder.com http://fastermelee.net http://fastermelee.net

dagw 9y ago

Why? What actual competitive advantage do they offer? Or is it more an abstract look and feel thing.

robin_reala 9y ago
Latency. A purely analogue path gets the signal to the screen quicker (in some cases multiple frames faster) which can make a serious difference in the fighting game community where input timing is typically calculated at the frame level.
hoorayimhelping 9y ago
Modern LCDs have a display lag that CRTs don't. Hardcore fighting games' units of measurement for moves are frames (as in frames per second). E.g. "it takes this character 17 frames to execute this move, and you have 5 frames from the start of the animation to block it." Under those conditions, a 5ms delay matters.
Sholmesy 9y ago
The other comments have hit the nail on the head. The game is considered "very fast" mechanically so a slight change in screen rendering is a big deal. People claim they can see the difference between a CRT vs LED with the same input latency, in how they differ in rendering the frame (I don't know technical details on this, but they do "feel" different). It's an interesting scenario that the community is actively trying to migrate from.
- vinceguidry 9y ago
  I still remember playing a PSX for the first time. It felt so... slow. I complained to my cousin about it, 3 years younger than me. He made fun of me. When it was finally my money to spend on games, I bought an N64. The only thing the Playstation seemed capable of was RPGs. And with the sole exception of FF7, the SNES ones were better.
samfriedman 9y ago
As far as I know only pre-digital game consoles provide a competitive advantage with CRT TVs. In Melee, a fairly "fast" game in terms of inputs and timing, the Gamecube/Wii can produce noticeable input lag when connected to a digital display due to the step of converting the signal. Analog CRTs alleviate this and are thus preferred for practically all levels of competitive play. Senior members of the Smash Melee competitive community have been known to keep their own personal stores of CRTs, making organizing large events easier. I've known a few people in the scene to prefer these Trinitron TVs specifically, usually because the colors "pop" more, making it easier to discern movement on the screen. Or so they tell me. For more modern consoles that output digital signals, no conversion is needed and you will typically see LED TVs being used instead. Interestingly, Smash Bros. Melee also has a PC-based online community, where Gamecube emulators are used to play a modified version of the game over the internet. On an emulator, it's actually possible to provide less input lag than on a real console + CRT. http://smashladder.com http://smashladder.com http://fastermelee.net http://fastermelee.net