10 ms·

Home and hotel – Switching from macOS to Ubuntu on a Dell XPS 13 laptop

91 points by mherrmann 9y ago

ishtu 9y ago
>macOS is like a hotel. Everything is polished, designed and cared for. well not anymore
- majewsky 9y ago
  Yeah, exactly. For me, it's the exact opposite. I've seen a ton of obscure window management bugs on macOS, but never on KDE Plasma or i3.
  - bromuro 9y ago
    For example?
    - majewsky 9y ago
      Windows that are just invisible, as if they're located somewhere off-screen. Windows that spawn in random places (such as the 3rd external monitor way outside my FOV), instead of following a logical rule like "on the same desktop as the cursor" or "on the desktop where this app is usually located". Windows that get stuck in the middle of one of the fullscreen-related animations.
      - majewsky 9y ago
        Oh, and that hilarious bug where the screen locker does not completely lock, so Outlook manages to show modal dialogs (that can be interacted with!) on the lock screen.
    - LeonM 9y ago
      nVidia video driver crashing every time when a thunderbolt display is attached or detached since High Sierra. Java windows flashing after screen has been locked. Terminal windows using 100% CPU (some sort of render bug). Bluetooth connections constantly dropping. Windows of 0 by 0 pixels when restoring a desktop after reboot. Video playback in every browser stopping after about 10 seconds. I can go on and on.
maxhallinan 9y ago
Great analogy.
dr_hooo 9y ago
I'm sorry but what is the point of this article? TL;DR Alsa is buggy? Ubuntu terminal is better than iTerm?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mherrmann 9y ago
  TL;DR: Ubuntu feels like it has my interests in mind, macOS feels like it caters to Apple's. "Feels like" mind you. Completely subjective.
- digi_owl 9y ago
  Would not surprise me if the sound issue is PA related, and he has to go to alsamixer to bypass PA's tomfoolery.
i_dont_know_ 9y ago
Linux is fine if you're at home and have a few hours to kill to figure out how to tweak something, but if you're at work and need to do a video call using startup-of-the-week's proprietary service and use a projector at the same time... good luck! Seriously though, that's the main reason I use OSX... It's usually compatible with the random toolsets my clients use without any additional tweaking.
- dman 9y ago
  OSX admittedly is a lot more seamless than linux - if you happen to be on a clients site and find your self stuck without admin privileges you do not need to worry - just enter root and all will be fine.
- gkya 9y ago
  Wrong decade my friend.
- INTPenis 9y ago
  I had to respond to this because I am also a person who switched from Mac OS to Linux for work. But I still have my Macbook pro at the office, it never leaves the desk there. My ambulatory laptop is a Thinkpad X260 running Fedora. I have none of the issues described in the article But you do raise valid points. I work in an organisation that loves Microsoft and store-bought solutions like Skype for Business. My answer is to use a tablet for video conference calls, a Pixel C in my case but any modern tablet will work. So with that solved the only major gripe I have with using Linux professionally is all the enterprise VPN solutions that in one way or another require Windows. Juniper JunOS pulse for example, I haven't been able to get that working on Linux. They do have an official Linux client but like you said, it requires some finagling. Other than that though I think Linux has come a very long way from the old mentality that you had to spend long nights getting everything to work. I used to do that, but the last 5-6 years I've been too busy with work to bother. So I was using mostly Apple until about 4 years ago when I bought a Thinkpad X230 and started using Fedora. Another issue that doesn't come up often but is quite debilitating is when I need to screencast to someone. Wayland isn't supported anywhere so I have to logout and log back in with X just to screencast. None of the other issues you mentioned affect me, projectors and hdmi screen sharing works just fine.
teekert 9y ago
Strange issues for a laptop officially supported to run Ubuntu. Looks like he is on 16.04, I wonder how 17.10 and later 18.04 would treat him. I run Solus (Gnome) on an Asus bx410 and I have 0 issues. Would really love it though if the DPI would adapt to the monitor and keep everything the same size. Oh, I shouldn't say more or my comment will be longer than the article.
nickserv 9y ago
A non-article if you ask me. And the issues described seem like they're linked to the particular release he's running... I'm on a Dell with the latest Kubuntu and everything just works.
CSDude 9y ago
I feel like at home at Linux but sometimes I want to burn that house when using Desktop. It is really great, very flexible but it comes at a cost. I used Linux desktop for 8 years, from Gnome 2 to Unity abomination, i3 to awesomewm. HiDpi is really hard, random app shutdowns. But I really miss two things a lot: A decent package manager and a fucking ALT+TAB button that can cycle through all windows unlike MacOS where it groups by application.
- jhasse 9y ago
  Check out https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch
  - memco 9y ago
    Also, you can use ctrl+f4, which is like cmd+` but for all windows instead of just the active apps' windows. I'm sure you could reassign that shortcut if so inclined.
- pfranz 9y ago
  https://manytricks.com/witch/ https://manytricks.com/witch/ Years ago I had Witch installed for awhile to do what you're talking about. If I remember correctly, by default cmd-` would flip through just windows, but I'm pretty sure you can mix them in and have cmd-tab flip through both. As for a package manager, what are your needs? Since you can't repackage the OS, "package managers" are quite a bit different in macOS and Windows. I've generally liked Homebrew, but when trying Windows and looking at Chocolatey I was really confused (I believe I was hoping to compile/install libraries instead of applications). I think Nix has a lot of potential. I wish I could use it more in Linux and macOS (and I wish it had more polish).
hi41 9y ago
The article equates macOS to hotel and Ubuntu to home. So The heading should Change the order and read as Hotel and home instead.
mmjaa 9y ago
I've been using Linux since the day Linus dropped it on us, and all I can say is: you are what you eat. Hotel and home food is equally awesome and undeniably potentially un-healthy. Cook your own food, eat well.
sandGorgon 9y ago
Please do try Fedora. You will find that the level of polish in Fedora today far exceeds that in Ubuntu. At some level, you feel the systemd, Gnome, Wayland integration as something force fed to Ubuntu.
- antongribok 9y ago
  Came here to say exactly the same thing. Been running XPS 13 DE with Fedora for the past year and it's been flawless. Battery life with the FHD screen is amazing, I can work two 7-8 hour work days on a single charge. At idle I'll get over 22 hours. The updates for OS and BIOS are more polished than Windows or Mac.
- gkya 9y ago
  With Fedora the boot process has always been a pain for me. Every time I installed it after a couple reboots it begins to hang at the Plymouth screen indefinitely. I've tried up until Fedora 26.
- FLUX-YOU 9y ago
  >Please do try Fedora. You will find that the level of polish in Fedora today far exceeds that in Ubuntu. Fedora's a bit wonky with some Asus laptops though. If Fedora is flawless with an XPS 13, I'd probably buy that. - iio-sensor-proxy has a 90 degree offset by default, meaning that the display is rotated to portrait mode when the laptop is flat. This was the biggest problem IMO, but locking the rotation once fixes it for subsequent boots. Rotating the laptop to portrait puts the display in landscape mode, so iio-sensor-proxy is either reversing the orientation from the sensor or the sensor is reversed. - There are wifi errors in the log when shutting down. Something about key removal, but has no impact when using - Really odd ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@... pattern also when shutting down - Boot takes 3-5 minutes with full disk encryption, but I have a mechanical drive - dmesg had some other strange things in it, but I remember thinking "Is there any platform where boot results in no error messages? That would be nice". I'm sure Windows has similar things.
  - sandGorgon 9y ago
    I have a XPS 13. Fedora was the only distribution that installed with nvme disks. Super happy with it.
fleetfox 9y ago
My experience with XPS 13 and Ubuntu is very bad. In particular ath10k firmware and sleep/hibernate
- mherrmann 9y ago
  Do you have the Linux edition of the XPS?
  - robin_reala 9y ago
    I didn’t realise the hardware was different, assumed it was just a different install package.
  - fleetfox 9y ago
    9360, it came with some flavor of Ubuntu preinstalled. It didn't have "Linux edition" or "Developer edition" moniker on it.
khana 9y ago
I'm right behind you..
bruncun 9y ago
Thanks for the concise and timely comparison.
davidcollantes 9y ago
My servers run Linux, my workstation runs macOS. Nothing that others have said (this submission I am replying included), nor anything I have experienced on my own, have provided enough ground to make me change my mind. Same applies to Android vs. iOS.
- pfranz 9y ago
  I'm in the same boat as you. I was in a similar position as OP and started my search looking at PCs (running Linux) to replace my Mac laptop. My current job is remote (so more emphasis on integrated webcam), I occasionally need large amounts of RAM and would like large amounts of internal disk space. Previously, I'd buy a Mac and upgrade RAM and storage--but that's no longer an option. Unfortunately, all laptops in that class seem to have non-replaceable RAM. So for 16gb I'd have to get the $1,499.99 configuration of the XPS 13. It doesn't have a 1 tb drive option, but Crucial sells one for $289.99. The XPS has the webcam below the screen next to the keyboard. Not only do you look up your nose, my fingers showed up. I also very much dislike proprietary chargers, but I'm not enthusiastic about going all-in on USB-C. The Mac still cost more, but not double the price like I was expecting. I know the battery will last, the ssd is faster than one on SATA, it'll last 5+ years if I need, and will resell well if I take care of it.
true_tuna 9y ago
I recently made the switch for my primary work computer and I’m thrilled with it. Before this I was a Mac fan for decades. When they took away my ability to say “no” I lost all faith. Apple product managers please take note. “Remind me again later” is dehumanizing and offensive. What happened to “no”? Oh well. Does fuck off forever work for you? Now I just need a phone that’s not Apple or Google. Any suggestions?
- robin_reala 9y ago
  Nokia 3310 is a good phone, depending on your needs. https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310 https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310
- StavrosK 9y ago
  There are thing like AOSP/LineageOS/CopperheadOS that aren't "Google", no?
- bsaul 9y ago
  i'm planning on doing the same for the exact same reason ( phone first then probably desktop later). the final blow was exactly the same : forcing me to install iOS11 , that previously made my ipad air too slow, using the "no ? then type your code to install during the night" dark pattern. in addition to that i'll also stop my carreer as an iOS developer and move to cross-platform sdks ( flutter comes right on time). i'm also looking for a non-android non-ios smartphone, so if anyone knows something decent...
- xnzakg 9y ago
  You could either try the Purism phone, which is supposed to run a Linux distro with Plasma Mobile, or you could try an Android phone with aftermarket firmware - either Android based, like LineageOS, or Linux based, like PostmarketOS or SailfishOS.
pantulis 9y ago
The Linux vs macOS comparison is valid, provided you only need a workstation. In fact I dont see there is any real argument regarding this: Linux was and will always be a better Unix development platform than anything, period. But let's ponder for a second: why did web developers world wide embrace OS X about a decade ago? Because it was a bona-fide developer platform and a state-of-the-art desktop, giving access to all the proprietary tools that are missing in Linux, for example the Adobe suite, MS Office, etc. What I'm positing is that the real contender for macOS is not Linux, it's Windows, with the awesome Linux subsystem which, to the best of my knowledge, is as undistinguishable from the Linux environment as the Darwin/POSIX layer in macOS.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cweagans 9y ago
  I went down that road and it's certainly not as comfortable as macOS. The biggest thing is that the Linux environment is more or less separated from the actual desktop environment. For instance, if I install Atom on Windows, I can't just pop open my WSL terminal and install gulp or whatever and have Atom find it. On a Mac, it's as simple as a `brew install whatever` and then any GUI application can use the newly installed program. If Microsoft burned the Windows kernel to the ground and started with BSD or something so that Windows was actually Unix-y under the hood, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
  - terminalcommand 9y ago
    On windows you could install msys and then use pacman -S whatever to install packages. Calling it from any editor could be as simple as changing the PATH. On the other hand, even without cygwin you could use a windows command line package manager such as chocolatey. Everything unix-y is not always good, Windows has some novel ideas too. The main difference is that Windows is more GUI oriented and Unix is text oriented. Windows has APIs and Objects, whereas in a perfect Unix unix world everything needs to be a text stream. I lived in the Unix world for a long time and I still use various BSDs and/or Linux. Yet after years preaching the Unix way, now I think one needs to choose the right tool for the job, there really is no silver bullet. In reality, app development with a real IDE such as Visual Studio or Jetbrains products is much more comfortable for me. It's true that these tools limit your expression, but they also alleviate a lot of mental burden. If I don't have to waste brain cycles on typing commands, flexing my fingers through various M-x C-x positions etc. I seem to be able to write faster and with greater ease. On the other hand the code I write in my text editor is usually very dense and more beautiful to look at. I sometimes compare the situation between living in the Unix world and Windows world with the two fractions in Game of Thrones. Unix people represent the Wildlings, they're brave, free, do not recognize authority, do everything by themselves, live in harsh conditions, yet they are happy because they live a straight-forward and free life. Microsoft people represent the other side of the wall, they're not free, but they have technology, civilization, more population. And there seems to be a great wall between these users.
truth_seeker 9y ago
I switched to Elementary OS (Loki) last year and never looked back.
oliwarner 9y ago
As a decade-long Ubuntu user, it seems strange to see somebody so enthusiastically compliment Gnome Terminal, something I apparently just take for granted. How bad can the MacOS terminal really be?
- PleaseHelpMe 9y ago
  Without iTerm, MacOS users would cry, believe me.
  - grzm 9y ago
    Yes, I’m one data point, but use the stock terminal. I installed iTerm at one point but didn’t find enough benefit to justify continuing to do so. I have no doubt those using iTerm enjoy it and are productive, but phrasing it as you do is really unnecessary.
- zupzupper 9y ago
  It's not great. Better than the default windows one, I think a lot of people on OSX pick up iTerm2 instead.
  - oliwarner 9y ago
    "Better than CMD.exe" High praise.
    - JdeBP 9y ago
      That's not what xe actually said. I hope that if zupzupper had wanted to name the actual executable xe would have got the name right, and said better than conhost.exe. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console....
      - oliwarner 9y ago
        Only just caught this. It was a joke; highlighting that comparing anything favourably to the pile of crap that is the traditional Windows command interface (window, or interface, it really doesn't matter for the comparison) is barely worth recognition for its obviousness. I'm glad it gave you so much amusement.

91 points by mherrmann 9y ago

ishtu 9y ago

>macOS is like a hotel. Everything is polished, designed and cared for. well not anymore

majewsky 9y ago
Yeah, exactly. For me, it's the exact opposite. I've seen a ton of obscure window management bugs on macOS, but never on KDE Plasma or i3.
- bromuro 9y ago
  For example?
  - majewsky 9y ago
    Windows that are just invisible, as if they're located somewhere off-screen. Windows that spawn in random places (such as the 3rd external monitor way outside my FOV), instead of following a logical rule like "on the same desktop as the cursor" or "on the desktop where this app is usually located". Windows that get stuck in the middle of one of the fullscreen-related animations.
    - majewsky 9y ago
      Oh, and that hilarious bug where the screen locker does not completely lock, so Outlook manages to show modal dialogs (that can be interacted with!) on the lock screen.
  - LeonM 9y ago
    nVidia video driver crashing every time when a thunderbolt display is attached or detached since High Sierra. Java windows flashing after screen has been locked. Terminal windows using 100% CPU (some sort of render bug). Bluetooth connections constantly dropping. Windows of 0 by 0 pixels when restoring a desktop after reboot. Video playback in every browser stopping after about 10 seconds. I can go on and on.

maxhallinan 9y ago

Great analogy.

dr_hooo 9y ago

I'm sorry but what is the point of this article? TL;DR Alsa is buggy? Ubuntu terminal is better than iTerm?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
mherrmann 9y ago
TL;DR: Ubuntu feels like it has my interests in mind, macOS feels like it caters to Apple's. "Feels like" mind you. Completely subjective.
digi_owl 9y ago
Would not surprise me if the sound issue is PA related, and he has to go to alsamixer to bypass PA's tomfoolery.

i_dont_know_ 9y ago

Linux is fine if you're at home and have a few hours to kill to figure out how to tweak something, but if you're at work and need to do a video call using startup-of-the-week's proprietary service and use a projector at the same time... good luck! Seriously though, that's the main reason I use OSX... It's usually compatible with the random toolsets my clients use without any additional tweaking.

dman 9y ago
OSX admittedly is a lot more seamless than linux - if you happen to be on a clients site and find your self stuck without admin privileges you do not need to worry - just enter root and all will be fine.
gkya 9y ago
Wrong decade my friend.
INTPenis 9y ago
I had to respond to this because I am also a person who switched from Mac OS to Linux for work. But I still have my Macbook pro at the office, it never leaves the desk there. My ambulatory laptop is a Thinkpad X260 running Fedora. I have none of the issues described in the article But you do raise valid points. I work in an organisation that loves Microsoft and store-bought solutions like Skype for Business. My answer is to use a tablet for video conference calls, a Pixel C in my case but any modern tablet will work. So with that solved the only major gripe I have with using Linux professionally is all the enterprise VPN solutions that in one way or another require Windows. Juniper JunOS pulse for example, I haven't been able to get that working on Linux. They do have an official Linux client but like you said, it requires some finagling. Other than that though I think Linux has come a very long way from the old mentality that you had to spend long nights getting everything to work. I used to do that, but the last 5-6 years I've been too busy with work to bother. So I was using mostly Apple until about 4 years ago when I bought a Thinkpad X230 and started using Fedora. Another issue that doesn't come up often but is quite debilitating is when I need to screencast to someone. Wayland isn't supported anywhere so I have to logout and log back in with X just to screencast. None of the other issues you mentioned affect me, projectors and hdmi screen sharing works just fine.

teekert 9y ago

Strange issues for a laptop officially supported to run Ubuntu. Looks like he is on 16.04, I wonder how 17.10 and later 18.04 would treat him. I run Solus (Gnome) on an Asus bx410 and I have 0 issues. Would really love it though if the DPI would adapt to the monitor and keep everything the same size. Oh, I shouldn't say more or my comment will be longer than the article.

nickserv 9y ago

A non-article if you ask me. And the issues described seem like they're linked to the particular release he's running... I'm on a Dell with the latest Kubuntu and everything just works.

CSDude 9y ago

I feel like at home at Linux but sometimes I want to burn that house when using Desktop. It is really great, very flexible but it comes at a cost. I used Linux desktop for 8 years, from Gnome 2 to Unity abomination, i3 to awesomewm. HiDpi is really hard, random app shutdowns. But I really miss two things a lot: A decent package manager and a fucking ALT+TAB button that can cycle through all windows unlike MacOS where it groups by application.

jhasse 9y ago
Check out https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch https://bahoom.com/hyperswitch
- memco 9y ago
  Also, you can use ctrl+f4, which is like cmd+` but for all windows instead of just the active apps' windows. I'm sure you could reassign that shortcut if so inclined.
pfranz 9y ago
https://manytricks.com/witch/ https://manytricks.com/witch/ Years ago I had Witch installed for awhile to do what you're talking about. If I remember correctly, by default cmd-` would flip through just windows, but I'm pretty sure you can mix them in and have cmd-tab flip through both. As for a package manager, what are your needs? Since you can't repackage the OS, "package managers" are quite a bit different in macOS and Windows. I've generally liked Homebrew, but when trying Windows and looking at Chocolatey I was really confused (I believe I was hoping to compile/install libraries instead of applications). I think Nix has a lot of potential. I wish I could use it more in Linux and macOS (and I wish it had more polish).

hi41 9y ago

The article equates macOS to hotel and Ubuntu to home. So The heading should Change the order and read as Hotel and home instead.

mmjaa 9y ago

I've been using Linux since the day Linus dropped it on us, and all I can say is: you are what you eat. Hotel and home food is equally awesome and undeniably potentially un-healthy. Cook your own food, eat well.

sandGorgon 9y ago

Please do try Fedora. You will find that the level of polish in Fedora today far exceeds that in Ubuntu. At some level, you feel the systemd, Gnome, Wayland integration as something force fed to Ubuntu.

antongribok 9y ago
Came here to say exactly the same thing. Been running XPS 13 DE with Fedora for the past year and it's been flawless. Battery life with the FHD screen is amazing, I can work two 7-8 hour work days on a single charge. At idle I'll get over 22 hours. The updates for OS and BIOS are more polished than Windows or Mac.
gkya 9y ago
With Fedora the boot process has always been a pain for me. Every time I installed it after a couple reboots it begins to hang at the Plymouth screen indefinitely. I've tried up until Fedora 26.
FLUX-YOU 9y ago
>Please do try Fedora. You will find that the level of polish in Fedora today far exceeds that in Ubuntu. Fedora's a bit wonky with some Asus laptops though. If Fedora is flawless with an XPS 13, I'd probably buy that. - iio-sensor-proxy has a 90 degree offset by default, meaning that the display is rotated to portrait mode when the laptop is flat. This was the biggest problem IMO, but locking the rotation once fixes it for subsequent boots. Rotating the laptop to portrait puts the display in landscape mode, so iio-sensor-proxy is either reversing the orientation from the sensor or the sensor is reversed. - There are wifi errors in the log when shutting down. Something about key removal, but has no impact when using - Really odd ^@^@^@^@^@^@^@... pattern also when shutting down - Boot takes 3-5 minutes with full disk encryption, but I have a mechanical drive - dmesg had some other strange things in it, but I remember thinking "Is there any platform where boot results in no error messages? That would be nice". I'm sure Windows has similar things.
- sandGorgon 9y ago
  I have a XPS 13. Fedora was the only distribution that installed with nvme disks. Super happy with it.

fleetfox 9y ago

My experience with XPS 13 and Ubuntu is very bad. In particular ath10k firmware and sleep/hibernate

mherrmann 9y ago
Do you have the Linux edition of the XPS?
- robin_reala 9y ago
  I didn’t realise the hardware was different, assumed it was just a different install package.
- fleetfox 9y ago
  9360, it came with some flavor of Ubuntu preinstalled. It didn't have "Linux edition" or "Developer edition" moniker on it.

khana 9y ago

I'm right behind you..

bruncun 9y ago

Thanks for the concise and timely comparison.

davidcollantes 9y ago

My servers run Linux, my workstation runs macOS. Nothing that others have said (this submission I am replying included), nor anything I have experienced on my own, have provided enough ground to make me change my mind. Same applies to Android vs. iOS.

pfranz 9y ago
I'm in the same boat as you. I was in a similar position as OP and started my search looking at PCs (running Linux) to replace my Mac laptop. My current job is remote (so more emphasis on integrated webcam), I occasionally need large amounts of RAM and would like large amounts of internal disk space. Previously, I'd buy a Mac and upgrade RAM and storage--but that's no longer an option. Unfortunately, all laptops in that class seem to have non-replaceable RAM. So for 16gb I'd have to get the $1,499.99 configuration of the XPS 13. It doesn't have a 1 tb drive option, but Crucial sells one for $289.99. The XPS has the webcam below the screen next to the keyboard. Not only do you look up your nose, my fingers showed up. I also very much dislike proprietary chargers, but I'm not enthusiastic about going all-in on USB-C. The Mac still cost more, but not double the price like I was expecting. I know the battery will last, the ssd is faster than one on SATA, it'll last 5+ years if I need, and will resell well if I take care of it.

true_tuna 9y ago

I recently made the switch for my primary work computer and I’m thrilled with it. Before this I was a Mac fan for decades. When they took away my ability to say “no” I lost all faith. Apple product managers please take note. “Remind me again later” is dehumanizing and offensive. What happened to “no”? Oh well. Does fuck off forever work for you? Now I just need a phone that’s not Apple or Google. Any suggestions?

robin_reala 9y ago
Nokia 3310 is a good phone, depending on your needs. https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310 https://www.nokia.com/en_int/phones/nokia-3310
StavrosK 9y ago
There are thing like AOSP/LineageOS/CopperheadOS that aren't "Google", no?
bsaul 9y ago
i'm planning on doing the same for the exact same reason ( phone first then probably desktop later). the final blow was exactly the same : forcing me to install iOS11 , that previously made my ipad air too slow, using the "no ? then type your code to install during the night" dark pattern. in addition to that i'll also stop my carreer as an iOS developer and move to cross-platform sdks ( flutter comes right on time). i'm also looking for a non-android non-ios smartphone, so if anyone knows something decent...
xnzakg 9y ago
You could either try the Purism phone, which is supposed to run a Linux distro with Plasma Mobile, or you could try an Android phone with aftermarket firmware - either Android based, like LineageOS, or Linux based, like PostmarketOS or SailfishOS.

pantulis 9y ago

The Linux vs macOS comparison is valid, provided you only need a workstation. In fact I dont see there is any real argument regarding this: Linux was and will always be a better Unix development platform than anything, period. But let's ponder for a second: why did web developers world wide embrace OS X about a decade ago? Because it was a bona-fide developer platform and a state-of-the-art desktop, giving access to all the proprietary tools that are missing in Linux, for example the Adobe suite, MS Office, etc. What I'm positing is that the real contender for macOS is not Linux, it's Windows, with the awesome Linux subsystem which, to the best of my knowledge, is as undistinguishable from the Linux environment as the Darwin/POSIX layer in macOS.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cweagans 9y ago
I went down that road and it's certainly not as comfortable as macOS. The biggest thing is that the Linux environment is more or less separated from the actual desktop environment. For instance, if I install Atom on Windows, I can't just pop open my WSL terminal and install gulp or whatever and have Atom find it. On a Mac, it's as simple as a `brew install whatever` and then any GUI application can use the newly installed program. If Microsoft burned the Windows kernel to the ground and started with BSD or something so that Windows was actually Unix-y under the hood, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
- terminalcommand 9y ago
  On windows you could install msys and then use pacman -S whatever to install packages. Calling it from any editor could be as simple as changing the PATH. On the other hand, even without cygwin you could use a windows command line package manager such as chocolatey. Everything unix-y is not always good, Windows has some novel ideas too. The main difference is that Windows is more GUI oriented and Unix is text oriented. Windows has APIs and Objects, whereas in a perfect Unix unix world everything needs to be a text stream. I lived in the Unix world for a long time and I still use various BSDs and/or Linux. Yet after years preaching the Unix way, now I think one needs to choose the right tool for the job, there really is no silver bullet. In reality, app development with a real IDE such as Visual Studio or Jetbrains products is much more comfortable for me. It's true that these tools limit your expression, but they also alleviate a lot of mental burden. If I don't have to waste brain cycles on typing commands, flexing my fingers through various M-x C-x positions etc. I seem to be able to write faster and with greater ease. On the other hand the code I write in my text editor is usually very dense and more beautiful to look at. I sometimes compare the situation between living in the Unix world and Windows world with the two fractions in Game of Thrones. Unix people represent the Wildlings, they're brave, free, do not recognize authority, do everything by themselves, live in harsh conditions, yet they are happy because they live a straight-forward and free life. Microsoft people represent the other side of the wall, they're not free, but they have technology, civilization, more population. And there seems to be a great wall between these users.

truth_seeker 9y ago

I switched to Elementary OS (Loki) last year and never looked back.

oliwarner 9y ago

As a decade-long Ubuntu user, it seems strange to see somebody so enthusiastically compliment Gnome Terminal, something I apparently just take for granted. How bad can the MacOS terminal really be?

PleaseHelpMe 9y ago
Without iTerm, MacOS users would cry, believe me.
- grzm 9y ago
  Yes, I’m one data point, but use the stock terminal. I installed iTerm at one point but didn’t find enough benefit to justify continuing to do so. I have no doubt those using iTerm enjoy it and are productive, but phrasing it as you do is really unnecessary.
zupzupper 9y ago
It's not great. Better than the default windows one, I think a lot of people on OSX pick up iTerm2 instead.
- oliwarner 9y ago
  "Better than CMD.exe" High praise.
  - JdeBP 9y ago
    That's not what xe actually said. I hope that if zupzupper had wanted to name the actual executable xe would have got the name right, and said better than conhost.exe. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console....
    - oliwarner 9y ago
      Only just caught this. It was a joke; highlighting that comparing anything favourably to the pile of crap that is the traditional Windows command interface (window, or interface, it really doesn't matter for the comparison) is barely worth recognition for its obviousness. I'm glad it gave you so much amusement.