4 ms·

> Imagine an app with 100.015 rows i can imagine an app like this. and such an app would have been designed with 0 thought given to the actual usability by hum

> Imagine an app with 100.015 rows i can imagine an app like this. and such an app would have been designed with 0 thought given to the actual usability by humans. the proper solution is to provide sorting, grouping, filtering and pagination. your UIs should be small enough to remain fast without insane optimization tricks. mobile and even desktop browsers are plenty slow at rendering/reflowing 100k DOM nodes; the fastest way to render this is simply not to. it's not as if suddenly you don't have to worry about the shitty UX and performance of your app's architecture "because fiber".

boubiyeah 9y ago
Haha yeah. The magic of green threading is so misunderstood: Ok, it no longer blocks your UI thread but it takes AT LEAST as long as before to render (browsers still don't have an API to reliably schedule small chunks of work without also incurring the cost of setTimeout clamping) So it's not really an improvement for me, your component tree becomes harder to reason about (when does this component renders??), you may see very unwanted progressive rendering where you didn't want to, etc. Many vdom implementations are faster than React, synchronous perfs matter a lot too. Even the core React maintainers acknowledge this is kind of like an experiment.
mlsarecmg 9y ago
The list is an example, the cheapest one to make it understandable. Let it be 2000, or 100, filtered and pre-processed. It would still take longer than the 15 the user actually sees. The point isn't the list, but the primitive. I don't even know where the scepticism comes from, culling and priotization is normal on the desktop. You've been offloading UI related tasks that could interrupt animations or interactions in C# forever - it is a great tool to have and getting it for the web is a major step. Microbenchmarks that measure baseline deletes/adds/changes will simply not result in apps that feel native. Thinking framework xyz will just feel acceptable to mobile users because Krausest says it takes 1ms less adding 100.000 rows, that is just silly.
- GordonS 9y ago
  I would think that some combination of sorting, grouping, filtering and pagination would still make for a more user-friendly experience.
  - mlsarecmg 9y ago
    I don't think there's anything more user unfriendly and annoying than pagination. Pull/click/scroll to load have been made to help it. But that aside, the list isn't important. It could be dialog items, complex tree-views, plugins, graphs, visuals in general, etc.

boubiyeah 9y ago

Haha yeah. The magic of green threading is so misunderstood: Ok, it no longer blocks your UI thread but it takes AT LEAST as long as before to render (browsers still don't have an API to reliably schedule small chunks of work without also incurring the cost of setTimeout clamping) So it's not really an improvement for me, your component tree becomes harder to reason about (when does this component renders??), you may see very unwanted progressive rendering where you didn't want to, etc. Many vdom implementations are faster than React, synchronous perfs matter a lot too. Even the core React maintainers acknowledge this is kind of like an experiment.

mlsarecmg 9y ago

The list is an example, the cheapest one to make it understandable. Let it be 2000, or 100, filtered and pre-processed. It would still take longer than the 15 the user actually sees. The point isn't the list, but the primitive. I don't even know where the scepticism comes from, culling and priotization is normal on the desktop. You've been offloading UI related tasks that could interrupt animations or interactions in C# forever - it is a great tool to have and getting it for the web is a major step. Microbenchmarks that measure baseline deletes/adds/changes will simply not result in apps that feel native. Thinking framework xyz will just feel acceptable to mobile users because Krausest says it takes 1ms less adding 100.000 rows, that is just silly.

GordonS 9y ago
I would think that some combination of sorting, grouping, filtering and pagination would still make for a more user-friendly experience.
- mlsarecmg 9y ago
  I don't think there's anything more user unfriendly and annoying than pagination. Pull/click/scroll to load have been made to help it. But that aside, the list isn't important. It could be dialog items, complex tree-views, plugins, graphs, visuals in general, etc.