4 ms·

Are HN entrepreneurs really so willing to mooch off of the unwilling capital of the Chilean taxpayers?

daleharvey 16y ago
in exactly the same way yc companies "mooch off" ycombinator, of course they are. what is the basis of the "unwilling", has there been a backlash to this program?
- flatline 16y ago
  The original comment was snarky but it does raise a point. It sounds like they're specifically targeting foreigners (English language, don't have to be a Chilean native), so they must be betting that the increased exposure and business opportunities from this will offset the potential for money to flow out of country. Unfortunately, South American history favors outflow more than increased opportunity. Then again, the startup world will undoubtedly be better for this sort of thing than investment by large multinationals and political cronies.
  - ataggart 16y ago
    It was not my intention to be snarky. I was genuinely surprised at the placid response. My sense has been that entrepreneurs take pride in creating something of value, finding others that are willing to invest their own capital to bring the idea to full fruition. That notion seemed at odds with the sort of unalloyed rent seeking described on the linked site.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
  - leag 16y ago
    as a chilean I don't like very much the idea, here we have to figth the banks for funding, and the state gives away tax money
    - davidw 16y ago
      It seems to me that it's sort of a 'picking winners' approach, in that someone in Chile is picking companies to give money to. More broad based approaches that simply make taxes/bureaucracy/financing etc... easier for everyone are something I would see as more favorable in some ways. That said, it doesn't seem like a great deal of money, and in terms of a "publicity stunt", it certainly seems to be effective.
- ataggart 16y ago
  YC invests its own capital, capital accrued through voluntary exchange, and that capital will be freed to more productive ends should they make poor choices. The application says as much: "The original motivation for Y Combinator was benevolent, but this is not a charity. If our investments pay off, we can invest in more startups, and if they don't, we can't keep doing this indefinitely." Contrast that with this Chilean taxpayer-funded scheme.
  - daleharvey 16y ago
    My point wasnt that they were equivalent investments, just that they were investments and its pretty offensive to suggest that founders would be "mooching" because you dont happen to agree with the basis of the investment.
    - ataggart 16y ago
      It's mooching precisely due to the nature of the inequivalence. One is the voluntary, contractual exchange of capital for equity; the other is glad-handing politicians giving away money taken from other people in order to foster a pro-business image through anti-market means. Participating in the former is commerce, participating in the latter is rent seeking. If this sort of consequence-free pay day doesn't count as mooching, then nothing does.
blacksmythe 16y ago
It sounds like Chile wants to build up their software industry. Sounds to me like a very good investment on their part, and a win-win for everyone concerned.
- ataggart 16y ago
  "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."

in exactly the same way yc companies "mooch off" ycombinator, of course they are. what is the basis of the "unwilling", has there been a backlash to this program?

flatline 16y ago
The original comment was snarky but it does raise a point. It sounds like they're specifically targeting foreigners (English language, don't have to be a Chilean native), so they must be betting that the increased exposure and business opportunities from this will offset the potential for money to flow out of country. Unfortunately, South American history favors outflow more than increased opportunity. Then again, the startup world will undoubtedly be better for this sort of thing than investment by large multinationals and political cronies.
- ataggart 16y ago
  It was not my intention to be snarky. I was genuinely surprised at the placid response. My sense has been that entrepreneurs take pride in creating something of value, finding others that are willing to invest their own capital to bring the idea to full fruition. That notion seemed at odds with the sort of unalloyed rent seeking described on the linked site.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
- leag 16y ago
  as a chilean I don't like very much the idea, here we have to figth the banks for funding, and the state gives away tax money
  - davidw 16y ago
    It seems to me that it's sort of a 'picking winners' approach, in that someone in Chile is picking companies to give money to. More broad based approaches that simply make taxes/bureaucracy/financing etc... easier for everyone are something I would see as more favorable in some ways. That said, it doesn't seem like a great deal of money, and in terms of a "publicity stunt", it certainly seems to be effective.
ataggart 16y ago
YC invests its own capital, capital accrued through voluntary exchange, and that capital will be freed to more productive ends should they make poor choices. The application says as much: "The original motivation for Y Combinator was benevolent, but this is not a charity. If our investments pay off, we can invest in more startups, and if they don't, we can't keep doing this indefinitely." Contrast that with this Chilean taxpayer-funded scheme.
- daleharvey 16y ago
  My point wasnt that they were equivalent investments, just that they were investments and its pretty offensive to suggest that founders would be "mooching" because you dont happen to agree with the basis of the investment.
  - ataggart 16y ago
    It's mooching precisely due to the nature of the inequivalence. One is the voluntary, contractual exchange of capital for equity; the other is glad-handing politicians giving away money taken from other people in order to foster a pro-business image through anti-market means. Participating in the former is commerce, participating in the latter is rent seeking. If this sort of consequence-free pay day doesn't count as mooching, then nothing does.

blacksmythe 16y ago

It sounds like Chile wants to build up their software industry. Sounds to me like a very good investment on their part, and a win-win for everyone concerned.

ataggart 16y ago
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."