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I'm not a fan of the h1b program, after what happened in Disney. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replaceme

by MollyR 9y ago

I'm not a fan of the h1b program, after what happened in Disney. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff... It really soured me on the whole program. If employers stop using it to undercut and fire american workers while claiming there aren't enough american workers to fill the jobs. I'd feel different. edit:fixed link

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hkmurakami 9y ago
That Disney thing was disgusting. On the other hand I'm empathetic towards international grad students (or even masters students whose affluent parents are shouldering the tuition for 2 years) who are looking for a path to naturalization. Structuring a program to weed out the bad apples but keep the ones you want, seems difficult.
yakitori 9y ago
I'm a bit biased since I'm an american software developer, but how is the h1b program any good for americans? If the government/companies' complaint is that we don't have enough home grown talent, then what incentive is there for government/companies to invest in americans? Why not get rid of the h1b program so that the government and american companies are forced to train/invest in americans and american children? It's absurd to claim that a nation of 350 million people can't produce enough "homegrown talent". H1B visa just seems like a program that wealthy companies can used to exploit cheap foreign workers and screw over american workers. And from the other angle, if these h1b workers are so valuable, isn't it wrong to take them from a third world nation like india? Should we let them have their tech workers to develop the indian industry/economy? It seems like an evil and exploitive institution from every angle and yet, both political parties seem to love it.
- brad0 9y ago
  The program exists so that America can stay on top. The best 5% of programmers in the world work here because it’s the best pay and the best problems. You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the stock market these days? It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the world. We (as in non Americans) chose to move here. We didn’t get “taken”. We know what’s best for ourselves as individuals. There is no way that I could have any effect on the way my home country is run by writing software for some company and getting paid shit. America’s roots is in immigration. That’s part of what makes it so powerful. EDIT: From what I understand H1B workers have to be paid at least equal to what a non visa employee gets. So it’s not cheap labor by any measure.
  - gonational 9y ago
    OT: hey brad0, I read your story at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 finally… just happened to stumble across it when looking through my old comments. Thanks for sharing that; it was very interesting.
  - SamReidHughes 9y ago
    That's clearly good for some American businesses and their customers, but that doesn't mean it's good for American workers. A teacher in Kansas City might benefit from more rapidly developed, higher quality consumer software, and other cheaper, more competitive goods. A teacher in California will get higher rent and more traffic.
  - yakitori 9y ago
    > You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the stock market these days? Only? No. They've done better than most but all major stocks are up. We are in a mega stock boom at the moment. > It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. Most of it is because of americans. Even if h1b visa was shut down, none of the FAANG are going to suffer. > It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the world. That's my point. Isn't it evil to take "talented people" from part of the world that needs them the most? > America’s roots is in immigration. Our roots aren't in immigration. Our roots are in invasion and conquest. I know this is a touchy subject but we aren't a nation of immigrants. This country wasn't created by immigrants. We have exploited immigrants for sure, but I just disagree with the false notion that our roots are in immigration. The founding fathers were highly anti-immigrant and quite xenophobic. And ever since the founding there have been series of anti-immigration laws. I'd gladly provide sources if you are curious.

by MollyR 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

hkmurakami 9y ago

That Disney thing was disgusting. On the other hand I'm empathetic towards international grad students (or even masters students whose affluent parents are shouldering the tuition for 2 years) who are looking for a path to naturalization. Structuring a program to weed out the bad apples but keep the ones you want, seems difficult.

yakitori 9y ago

I'm a bit biased since I'm an american software developer, but how is the h1b program any good for americans? If the government/companies' complaint is that we don't have enough home grown talent, then what incentive is there for government/companies to invest in americans? Why not get rid of the h1b program so that the government and american companies are forced to train/invest in americans and american children? It's absurd to claim that a nation of 350 million people can't produce enough "homegrown talent". H1B visa just seems like a program that wealthy companies can used to exploit cheap foreign workers and screw over american workers. And from the other angle, if these h1b workers are so valuable, isn't it wrong to take them from a third world nation like india? Should we let them have their tech workers to develop the indian industry/economy? It seems like an evil and exploitive institution from every angle and yet, both political parties seem to love it.

brad0 9y ago
The program exists so that America can stay on top. The best 5% of programmers in the world work here because it’s the best pay and the best problems. You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the stock market these days? It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the world. We (as in non Americans) chose to move here. We didn’t get “taken”. We know what’s best for ourselves as individuals. There is no way that I could have any effect on the way my home country is run by writing software for some company and getting paid shit. America’s roots is in immigration. That’s part of what makes it so powerful. EDIT: From what I understand H1B workers have to be paid at least equal to what a non visa employee gets. So it’s not cheap labor by any measure.
- gonational 9y ago
  OT: hey brad0, I read your story at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 finally… just happened to stumble across it when looking through my old comments. Thanks for sharing that; it was very interesting.
- SamReidHughes 9y ago
  That's clearly good for some American businesses and their customers, but that doesn't mean it's good for American workers. A teacher in Kansas City might benefit from more rapidly developed, higher quality consumer software, and other cheaper, more competitive goods. A teacher in California will get higher rent and more traffic.
- yakitori 9y ago
  > You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the stock market these days? Only? No. They've done better than most but all major stocks are up. We are in a mega stock boom at the moment. > It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. Most of it is because of americans. Even if h1b visa was shut down, none of the FAANG are going to suffer. > It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the world. That's my point. Isn't it evil to take "talented people" from part of the world that needs them the most? > America’s roots is in immigration. Our roots aren't in immigration. Our roots are in invasion and conquest. I know this is a touchy subject but we aren't a nation of immigrants. This country wasn't created by immigrants. We have exploited immigrants for sure, but I just disagree with the false notion that our roots are in immigration. The founding fathers were highly anti-immigrant and quite xenophobic. And ever since the founding there have been series of anti-immigration laws. I'd gladly provide sources if you are curious.