4 ms·

Parents suspect Wi-Fi making kids sick

Rhapso 16y ago
What is the banana equivalent dose of a strong wifi signal?
- russss 16y ago
  Zero. Microwaves are non-ionising.
- carbocation 16y ago
  Not a physicist. However, I'll take a qualitative stab. Radiation that we care about (mostly beta and gamma) is measured in rems, which is essentially a biological statement about how much tissue damage is associated with a certain dose of a specific type of radiation. I assume that WiFi releases no beta particles (electrons), so we're just talking about EM emission: visible light, X-rays, gamma rays, all that fun stuff. Your WiFi equipment is emitting in the microwave spectrum. The energy of photons at these wavelengths is orders of magnitude weaker than the energy of ionizing radiation (essentially gamma radiation). If you don't ionize, then there is no currently known mechanism by which you can cause cellular damage (except via thermal damage ;-) ). If we were to posit the WiFi emitter as a blackbody radiator, it would have to be thousands (millions?) of times hotter than room temperature to have an appreciable emission of gamma radiation thanks to Planck's Law. In other words, I'd guess that 1 banana probably emits as much ionizing radiation as all WiFi emitters have for all time. If you want an unreliable quantitative statement, try this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/features/article665419.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/featu... (1 year of strong WiFi = 20 minutes on a cell phone - which as far as we know is also 0 rem).
tptacek 16y ago
Great lines in science reporting, 2010: "I'm not saying it's because of the Wi-Fi because we don't know yet, but I've pretty much eliminated every other possible source."
- masnick 16y ago
  Maybe it's the cafeteria food.
- DenisM 16y ago
  Surely this one is better: Well what doctor has been schooled about the rate of microwave infections?
  - GiraffeNecktie 16y ago
    Who needs schooling? Everyone knows that a microwave infection can be cleared up in a few days with an over-the-counter ointment.
    - atestu 16y ago
      I hear homeopathy works pretty well for this kind of things.
    - nanairo 16y ago
      Awesome "alternative-medicine" sketch by two British comedians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
- nanairo 16y ago
  When I was a kid, my classmates and I would frequently get temperature, feel tired or sleepy, and even have strong headaches during school days... ... usually it happened just before a test, or a "long enough period of time" since our last such occurrence. Later on we found out going to the beach was a great help, but we never got teachers (or parents) to listen to us. :(
DenisM 16y ago
Another anti-vaccination movement? Oh dear.
ScotterC 16y ago
Oh yay more electro-sensitivity BS. Completely unverifiable claims of people who think electronics hurt them. Here's a blog post I saw on the matter: http://depletedcranium.com/interesting-new-electrosenstivity-claim/ http://depletedcranium.com/interesting-new-electrosenstivity...
matthavener 16y ago
They'll probably want to ban cordless phones as well..
mx12 16y ago
This is an example where everyone needs a fundamental lesson is statistics: Correlation does not imply causation.
patio11 16y ago
The parents complain they can't get the Simcoe County school board or anyone else to take their concerns seriously, even though the children's symptoms all disappear on weekends when they aren't in school. Somebody please tell me this was intended as a punchline. If so, it is beautifully arch.
nanairo 16y ago
I am not saying I believe there's any correlation, but I think the parents concerns do deserve a closer investigation: sure there might be no correlation, but maybe there is. That's the scientists job: let the investigate and their final word is it.
ben1040 16y ago
I'm 100% sure that these kids have absolutely no issues at home, where their parents operate cordless phones and microwave ovens in the same unlicensed spectra, and their house is bombarded by WiFi signals from their neighbors (in my previous home, I could see 20+ unique SSIDs). I love one of the reader comments to this article; I can't tell if it's serious or just a beautifully crafted troll. I'm worried it's the former: The eyes are very sensitive to EMR and you will notice many young people now wear ball caps and granny sunglasses even when it is cloudy. This is similar to sun blindness.
jdc 16y ago
"In all cases, the measured Wi-Fi signal levels were very far below international exposure limits (IEEE C95.1-2005 and ICNIRP) and in nearly all cases far below other RF signals in the same environments." From this study: Radiofrequency exposure from wireless LANs utilizing Wi-Fi technology. Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17293700 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17293700 Full text: http://www.medfordumc.org/celltower/wifirfexposure.pdf http://www.medfordumc.org/celltower/wifirfexposure.pdf
serichsen 16y ago
Is there a plausible mechanism?
- blueben 16y ago
  By which wifi can cause illness? No.

What is the banana equivalent dose of a strong wifi signal?

russss 16y ago
Zero. Microwaves are non-ionising.
carbocation 16y ago
Not a physicist. However, I'll take a qualitative stab. Radiation that we care about (mostly beta and gamma) is measured in rems, which is essentially a biological statement about how much tissue damage is associated with a certain dose of a specific type of radiation. I assume that WiFi releases no beta particles (electrons), so we're just talking about EM emission: visible light, X-rays, gamma rays, all that fun stuff. Your WiFi equipment is emitting in the microwave spectrum. The energy of photons at these wavelengths is orders of magnitude weaker than the energy of ionizing radiation (essentially gamma radiation). If you don't ionize, then there is no currently known mechanism by which you can cause cellular damage (except via thermal damage ;-) ). If we were to posit the WiFi emitter as a blackbody radiator, it would have to be thousands (millions?) of times hotter than room temperature to have an appreciable emission of gamma radiation thanks to Planck's Law. In other words, I'd guess that 1 banana probably emits as much ionizing radiation as all WiFi emitters have for all time. If you want an unreliable quantitative statement, try this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/features/article665419.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/featu... (1 year of strong WiFi = 20 minutes on a cell phone - which as far as we know is also 0 rem).

Great lines in science reporting, 2010: "I'm not saying it's because of the Wi-Fi because we don't know yet, but I've pretty much eliminated every other possible source."

masnick 16y ago
Maybe it's the cafeteria food.
DenisM 16y ago
Surely this one is better: Well what doctor has been schooled about the rate of microwave infections?
- GiraffeNecktie 16y ago
  Who needs schooling? Everyone knows that a microwave infection can be cleared up in a few days with an over-the-counter ointment.
  - atestu 16y ago
    I hear homeopathy works pretty well for this kind of things.
  - nanairo 16y ago
    Awesome "alternative-medicine" sketch by two British comedians: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
nanairo 16y ago
When I was a kid, my classmates and I would frequently get temperature, feel tired or sleepy, and even have strong headaches during school days... ... usually it happened just before a test, or a "long enough period of time" since our last such occurrence. Later on we found out going to the beach was a great help, but we never got teachers (or parents) to listen to us. :(

DenisM 16y ago

Another anti-vaccination movement? Oh dear.

ScotterC 16y ago

Oh yay more electro-sensitivity BS. Completely unverifiable claims of people who think electronics hurt them. Here's a blog post I saw on the matter: http://depletedcranium.com/interesting-new-electrosenstivity-claim/ http://depletedcranium.com/interesting-new-electrosenstivity...

matthavener 16y ago

They'll probably want to ban cordless phones as well..

mx12 16y ago

This is an example where everyone needs a fundamental lesson is statistics: Correlation does not imply causation.

patio11 16y ago

The parents complain they can't get the Simcoe County school board or anyone else to take their concerns seriously, even though the children's symptoms all disappear on weekends when they aren't in school. Somebody please tell me this was intended as a punchline. If so, it is beautifully arch.

nanairo 16y ago

I am not saying I believe there's any correlation, but I think the parents concerns do deserve a closer investigation: sure there might be no correlation, but maybe there is. That's the scientists job: let the investigate and their final word is it.

ben1040 16y ago

I'm 100% sure that these kids have absolutely no issues at home, where their parents operate cordless phones and microwave ovens in the same unlicensed spectra, and their house is bombarded by WiFi signals from their neighbors (in my previous home, I could see 20+ unique SSIDs). I love one of the reader comments to this article; I can't tell if it's serious or just a beautifully crafted troll. I'm worried it's the former: The eyes are very sensitive to EMR and you will notice many young people now wear ball caps and granny sunglasses even when it is cloudy. This is similar to sun blindness.

jdc 16y ago

"In all cases, the measured Wi-Fi signal levels were very far below international exposure limits (IEEE C95.1-2005 and ICNIRP) and in nearly all cases far below other RF signals in the same environments." From this study: Radiofrequency exposure from wireless LANs utilizing Wi-Fi technology. Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17293700 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17293700 Full text: http://www.medfordumc.org/celltower/wifirfexposure.pdf http://www.medfordumc.org/celltower/wifirfexposure.pdf

serichsen 16y ago

Is there a plausible mechanism?

blueben 16y ago
By which wifi can cause illness? No.