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Homelessness is only the most visible sign of poverty. If we somehow gave all homeless people some walls to live in, let's say without running water and no heat

Homelessness is only the most visible sign of poverty. If we somehow gave all homeless people some walls to live in, let's say without running water and no heat, would we have "solved" poverty? Of course not. As the GP pointed out, homelessness is safer for men. How about this fact: 21% of children live in poverty. How does that fit in for you?

Amygaz 9y ago
To add to your point, a fair amount of homeless people have mental illness, so no amount of job will help them if we don't care to their mental health. (The official US number is 25%, but I feel like Canada and UK surveys pairing mental illness and homelessness at up to 70% is closer to the reality.)
- lsc 9y ago
  > To add to your point, a fair amount of homeless people have mental illness, so no amount of job will help them if we don't care to their mental health. Mental illness isn't always a 100% sort of thing. Most people I know have been diagnosed with some sort of mental illness at some point or another, most of them either temporary or minor. Most of these people are gainfully employed, most of the time. Some of these people have had some issues retaining employment due to a mental issue getting worse. The more demand for your labor there is, the easier it is to get back on your feet after a temporary worsening of your condition is resolved, and that's super important, I think. Also, if you have chronic issues, the degree to which your employer will tolerate those chronic issues is determined largely by demand for your labor. I mean, certainly, there are some who are completely disabled, and I imagine that if you took one of those people I know with minor issues that periodically got worse and better, they'd have a hell of a time trying to get better if they were homeless. Certainly, mental health treatment is important and would help a lot. I'm just saying that more demand for your labor is also something that helps a lot, even when you do have some other issues.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  Imagine getting rid of all your possessions and wealth, moving somewhere that you have no support network, not talking to anyone you know, and living on the street (going hungry sometimes, facing the elements, not being able to shower regularly, wearing holes in all your clothes, ...). After 5 years, what do you think the chances are that people will consider you “mentally ill”? If you want to make the experiment more realistic, imagine also suffering some trauma that causes you extreme amounts of anxiety for a while such as going through a messy divorce with a scheming narcissist, having your family disown you, getting severely physically assaulted, or killing several innocent people. Many “mentally ill” people were formerly considered “sane” within the bounds of social norms, but even the best prepared can fall on hard times, and being homeless and socially isolated is really hard even for the mentally strongest.
weberc2 9y ago
I'm not sure homelessness is safer for men. Men are a lot more likely to be victims of every kind of assault than rape, and I have no reason to believe that the ratio of male:female victimization is affected by poverty. Further, men probably don't lag women a whole lot in rape victimization, or at least it's certainly more prevalent than the cultural meme suggests, largely due to underreporting and the fact that many jurisdictions (including the FBI) have defined rape in such a way that it excludes men from the victimization statistics (e.g. "rape is vaginal penetration"). Besides, there are far fewer social services (e.g., shelters) available to homeless men as compared to homeless women.

Amygaz 9y ago

To add to your point, a fair amount of homeless people have mental illness, so no amount of job will help them if we don't care to their mental health. (The official US number is 25%, but I feel like Canada and UK surveys pairing mental illness and homelessness at up to 70% is closer to the reality.)

lsc 9y ago
> To add to your point, a fair amount of homeless people have mental illness, so no amount of job will help them if we don't care to their mental health. Mental illness isn't always a 100% sort of thing. Most people I know have been diagnosed with some sort of mental illness at some point or another, most of them either temporary or minor. Most of these people are gainfully employed, most of the time. Some of these people have had some issues retaining employment due to a mental issue getting worse. The more demand for your labor there is, the easier it is to get back on your feet after a temporary worsening of your condition is resolved, and that's super important, I think. Also, if you have chronic issues, the degree to which your employer will tolerate those chronic issues is determined largely by demand for your labor. I mean, certainly, there are some who are completely disabled, and I imagine that if you took one of those people I know with minor issues that periodically got worse and better, they'd have a hell of a time trying to get better if they were homeless. Certainly, mental health treatment is important and would help a lot. I'm just saying that more demand for your labor is also something that helps a lot, even when you do have some other issues.
jacobolus 9y ago
Imagine getting rid of all your possessions and wealth, moving somewhere that you have no support network, not talking to anyone you know, and living on the street (going hungry sometimes, facing the elements, not being able to shower regularly, wearing holes in all your clothes, ...). After 5 years, what do you think the chances are that people will consider you “mentally ill”? If you want to make the experiment more realistic, imagine also suffering some trauma that causes you extreme amounts of anxiety for a while such as going through a messy divorce with a scheming narcissist, having your family disown you, getting severely physically assaulted, or killing several innocent people. Many “mentally ill” people were formerly considered “sane” within the bounds of social norms, but even the best prepared can fall on hard times, and being homeless and socially isolated is really hard even for the mentally strongest.

weberc2 9y ago

I'm not sure homelessness is safer for men. Men are a lot more likely to be victims of every kind of assault than rape, and I have no reason to believe that the ratio of male:female victimization is affected by poverty. Further, men probably don't lag women a whole lot in rape victimization, or at least it's certainly more prevalent than the cultural meme suggests, largely due to underreporting and the fact that many jurisdictions (including the FBI) have defined rape in such a way that it excludes men from the victimization statistics (e.g. "rape is vaginal penetration"). Besides, there are far fewer social services (e.g., shelters) available to homeless men as compared to homeless women.