6 ms·

Trump considers H-1B visa tweak that may lead to mass deportation of Indians

38 points by sharjeelsayed 9y ago

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
LifeofPi314 9y ago
Such a Dumbass move if implemented
detaro 9y ago
previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041795 (101 comments)
MollyR 9y ago
I'm not a fan of the h1b program, after what happened in Disney. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff... It really soured me on the whole program. If employers stop using it to undercut and fire american workers while claiming there aren't enough american workers to fill the jobs. I'd feel different. edit:fixed link
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  That Disney thing was disgusting. On the other hand I'm empathetic towards international grad students (or even masters students whose affluent parents are shouldering the tuition for 2 years) who are looking for a path to naturalization. Structuring a program to weed out the bad apples but keep the ones you want, seems difficult.
- yakitori 9y ago
  I'm a bit biased since I'm an american software developer, but how is the h1b program any good for americans? If the government/companies' complaint is that we don't have enough home grown talent, then what incentive is there for government/companies to invest in americans? Why not get rid of the h1b program so that the government and american companies are forced to train/invest in americans and american children? It's absurd to claim that a nation of 350 million people can't produce enough "homegrown talent". H1B visa just seems like a program that wealthy companies can used to exploit cheap foreign workers and screw over american workers. And from the other angle, if these h1b workers are so valuable, isn't it wrong to take them from a third world nation like india? Should we let them have their tech workers to develop the indian industry/economy? It seems like an evil and exploitive institution from every angle and yet, both political parties seem to love it.
  - brad0 9y ago
    The program exists so that America can stay on top. The best 5% of programmers in the world work here because it’s the best pay and the best problems. You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the stock market these days? It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the world. We (as in non Americans) chose to move here. We didn’t get “taken”. We know what’s best for ourselves as individuals. There is no way that I could have any effect on the way my home country is run by writing software for some company and getting paid shit. America’s roots is in immigration. That’s part of what makes it so powerful. EDIT: From what I understand H1B workers have to be paid at least equal to what a non visa employee gets. So it’s not cheap labor by any measure.
    - gonational 9y ago
      OT: hey brad0, I read your story at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 finally… just happened to stumble across it when looking through my old comments. Thanks for sharing that; it was very interesting.
    - SamReidHughes 9y ago
mankash666 9y ago
This is absurd. People on H1-B pay taxes like Americans - i.e Social security, Medicare, State, federal, sales, property... They're, however, not eligible for ANY of the social safety net they subsidize America for, (no social security, unemployment, Medicare, etc). They're overwhelmingly peaceful, law abiding residents with higher education, most earning in the top 5%. Abuse of the system is not by the recipients, but the companies enabling the abuse - punish the companies, not the innocent, tax paying, peaceful, law abiding residents who don't wake up every morning saying "Today, I want to replace an American job and suppress some wages, dream FUCKING LIFE". If this law does pass, I believe those being asked to leave should sue the US for repayment of Social security and Medicare taxes paid - after all they're non resident aliens and should be taxed as such. Ludicrous restrictions like not being allowed open their own businesses, killing any chance of monetizing a side hustle is another opportunity cost that the govt. cannot compensate for - and it may even be illegal, after all bringing an idea to life is free speech! Most of all, if this is squarely an anti-India policy, India should return the favor in kind and add tariffs to American businesses & individuals benefiting from trading with India. A page from Trump's own playbook is the only answer that'll get through to him.
- nonamechicken 9y ago
  >I believe those being asked to leave should sue the US for repayment of Social security and Medicare taxes paid In addition to all these, one has to also pay taxes for income they earn in India. >Most of all, if this is squarely an anti-India policy, India should return the favor in kind and add tariffs to American businesses & individuals benefiting from trading with India. How many Indian companies operate in US vs how many American companies operate in India? Indian companies stand to benefit a lot if they don't have to compete with the likes of Amazon, Dell, HP, Whirlpool, GM etc. So, US's anti India policies will help in creating more jobs in India so at least our kids won't have to deal with these type of situations being accused of stealing others jobs. US blocked cryogenics to India, India ended up making their own [1]. They supposedly blocked GPS, India launched its own[2]. For this also, we will eventually figure out something. [1]http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-blocks-critical-cryogenic-deal-forces-india-to-indigenise/1/302683.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-blocks-critical-cryoge... [2]https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/How-Kargil-spurred-India-to-design-own-GPS/articleshow/33254691.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/How-Kargil-...
gopalv 9y ago
This is not going to be fun for the real estate market - the biggest risk in buying a house is your visa renewal if you're heading into a lottery every six years. Double the risk if both spouses are on H1-Bs & you need a double income to meet mortgage. Removing the H4 EAD and forcing H1B lottery on existing tax payers sound like the opposite of Obama's "pen & phone" policy making. California will take a huge tax hit, which will probably force it to increase SALT (though I hope they take the SALT and rewrite it as a payroll tax directly so that the corporations can pay it directly to the state, skipping individual income & becoming deductible again). The only mitigating factor to this is if they go in with HR 392 (has more sponsors than the votes needed) and make it apply retroactively. There were a large number of Indians who were pro-trump[1] during the election, but I'm not sure if their support actually meant anything or not. [1] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-elections-2016/Hopes-of-faster-green-cards-anti-terror-rhetoric-make-desis-gravitate-to-Donald-Trump/articleshow/54909237.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-elections-2016/Hopes-...
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  That article says only 7% of Indians in America voted for trump. Also the ones who were voting for him were affluent. Which means that they likely have permanent resident status, or very strong visa status, and/or legitimately very strong educational and work credentials like a MD from India and completed residency in the US, or a degree from IIT and an advanced degree in the US.
  - zettadam 9y ago
    Ahem, green card holders and individuals with a "strong visa status" cannot vote. What are you talking about?
    - fred_is_fred 9y ago
      Clearly you've not heard of the H1STRONG visa.
mywittyname 9y ago
This is going to hit tech companies hard. Maybe this will help us work out the issues with H1-Bs and give people a faster means of obtaining citizenship. It's a win-win, as these people get stay in the US, and Trump can claim companies are now "hiring American."
whack 9y ago
It's worth clarifying a few details here since most people aren't aware of them. - this move is going to deport people with approved green-card applications (i140), the standards for which are much more stringent than the standards for the h1b program - this move affects only Indian citizens and no one else. Not China, not Mexico, not Pakistan, only India. - The reason why Indian citizens are being affected by this, and the reason why they have to wait so long to receive their green cards, is unrelated to their individual credentials. An equally qualified Mexican/Pakistani candidate will receive their green card within 2-3 years. An equally qualified Chinese candidate will receive their green card within 6 years. Indian candidates alone face a wait of 8-9+ years, which is a great kick in the teeth by itself, but this rule will now also deport them. I'm all for H1B reform. I'm all for making the standards more stringent, or raising the minimum-salary thresholds. I'm all for vetting prospective immigrants, and choosing only the best and brightest. But this new tweak does none of those things. It's going to deport tens of thousands of Indians, only Indians, and purely on account of them being Indian. What we're seeing is essentially a 21st century repeat of the Chinese-Exclusion-Act. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act
- Alfredo123 9y ago
  Correct and it really depresses me that no media even bothers report that this rule will not affect anyone but Indians for being Indian and good at their job. (A lot of people claim that H1B are cheap labor but it is worth noting that China, Phillipines, Vietnaam, Pakistan and dozens of other countries have poor people but unable to enter tech the way Indians have. That itself goes to show that whatever reason why American companies want H1B, Indians are damn good at it).

38 points by sharjeelsayed 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

LifeofPi314 9y ago

Such a Dumbass move if implemented

detaro 9y ago

previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16041795 (101 comments)

MollyR 9y ago

I'm not a fan of the h1b program, after what happened in Disney. https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff... It really soured me on the whole program. If employers stop using it to undercut and fire american workers while claiming there aren't enough american workers to fill the jobs. I'd feel different. edit:fixed link

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
hkmurakami 9y ago
That Disney thing was disgusting. On the other hand I'm empathetic towards international grad students (or even masters students whose affluent parents are shouldering the tuition for 2 years) who are looking for a path to naturalization. Structuring a program to weed out the bad apples but keep the ones you want, seems difficult.
yakitori 9y ago
I'm a bit biased since I'm an american software developer, but how is the h1b program any good for americans? If the government/companies' complaint is that we don't have enough home grown talent, then what incentive is there for government/companies to invest in americans? Why not get rid of the h1b program so that the government and american companies are forced to train/invest in americans and american children? It's absurd to claim that a nation of 350 million people can't produce enough "homegrown talent". H1B visa just seems like a program that wealthy companies can used to exploit cheap foreign workers and screw over american workers. And from the other angle, if these h1b workers are so valuable, isn't it wrong to take them from a third world nation like india? Should we let them have their tech workers to develop the indian industry/economy? It seems like an evil and exploitive institution from every angle and yet, both political parties seem to love it.
- brad0 9y ago
  The program exists so that America can stay on top. The best 5% of programmers in the world work here because it’s the best pay and the best problems. You know how FAANG are the only companies actually doing really well on the stock market these days? It’s because some of the most talented people in the world work for them. Not just the best Americans. The best people in the world. We (as in non Americans) chose to move here. We didn’t get “taken”. We know what’s best for ourselves as individuals. There is no way that I could have any effect on the way my home country is run by writing software for some company and getting paid shit. America’s roots is in immigration. That’s part of what makes it so powerful. EDIT: From what I understand H1B workers have to be paid at least equal to what a non visa employee gets. So it’s not cheap labor by any measure.
  - gonational 9y ago
    OT: hey brad0, I read your story at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15842501 finally… just happened to stumble across it when looking through my old comments. Thanks for sharing that; it was very interesting.
  - SamReidHughes 9y ago

mankash666 9y ago

This is absurd. People on H1-B pay taxes like Americans - i.e Social security, Medicare, State, federal, sales, property... They're, however, not eligible for ANY of the social safety net they subsidize America for, (no social security, unemployment, Medicare, etc). They're overwhelmingly peaceful, law abiding residents with higher education, most earning in the top 5%. Abuse of the system is not by the recipients, but the companies enabling the abuse - punish the companies, not the innocent, tax paying, peaceful, law abiding residents who don't wake up every morning saying "Today, I want to replace an American job and suppress some wages, dream FUCKING LIFE". If this law does pass, I believe those being asked to leave should sue the US for repayment of Social security and Medicare taxes paid - after all they're non resident aliens and should be taxed as such. Ludicrous restrictions like not being allowed open their own businesses, killing any chance of monetizing a side hustle is another opportunity cost that the govt. cannot compensate for - and it may even be illegal, after all bringing an idea to life is free speech! Most of all, if this is squarely an anti-India policy, India should return the favor in kind and add tariffs to American businesses & individuals benefiting from trading with India. A page from Trump's own playbook is the only answer that'll get through to him.

nonamechicken 9y ago
>I believe those being asked to leave should sue the US for repayment of Social security and Medicare taxes paid In addition to all these, one has to also pay taxes for income they earn in India. >Most of all, if this is squarely an anti-India policy, India should return the favor in kind and add tariffs to American businesses & individuals benefiting from trading with India. How many Indian companies operate in US vs how many American companies operate in India? Indian companies stand to benefit a lot if they don't have to compete with the likes of Amazon, Dell, HP, Whirlpool, GM etc. So, US's anti India policies will help in creating more jobs in India so at least our kids won't have to deal with these type of situations being accused of stealing others jobs. US blocked cryogenics to India, India ended up making their own [1]. They supposedly blocked GPS, India launched its own[2]. For this also, we will eventually figure out something. [1]http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-blocks-critical-cryogenic-deal-forces-india-to-indigenise/1/302683.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/us-blocks-critical-cryoge... [2]https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/How-Kargil-spurred-India-to-design-own-GPS/articleshow/33254691.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/science/How-Kargil-...

gopalv 9y ago

This is not going to be fun for the real estate market - the biggest risk in buying a house is your visa renewal if you're heading into a lottery every six years. Double the risk if both spouses are on H1-Bs & you need a double income to meet mortgage. Removing the H4 EAD and forcing H1B lottery on existing tax payers sound like the opposite of Obama's "pen & phone" policy making. California will take a huge tax hit, which will probably force it to increase SALT (though I hope they take the SALT and rewrite it as a payroll tax directly so that the corporations can pay it directly to the state, skipping individual income & becoming deductible again). The only mitigating factor to this is if they go in with HR 392 (has more sponsors than the votes needed) and make it apply retroactively. There were a large number of Indians who were pro-trump[1] during the election, but I'm not sure if their support actually meant anything or not. [1] - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-elections-2016/Hopes-of-faster-green-cards-anti-terror-rhetoric-make-desis-gravitate-to-Donald-Trump/articleshow/54909237.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/us-elections-2016/Hopes-...

hkmurakami 9y ago
That article says only 7% of Indians in America voted for trump. Also the ones who were voting for him were affluent. Which means that they likely have permanent resident status, or very strong visa status, and/or legitimately very strong educational and work credentials like a MD from India and completed residency in the US, or a degree from IIT and an advanced degree in the US.
- zettadam 9y ago
  Ahem, green card holders and individuals with a "strong visa status" cannot vote. What are you talking about?
  - fred_is_fred 9y ago
    Clearly you've not heard of the H1STRONG visa.

mywittyname 9y ago

This is going to hit tech companies hard. Maybe this will help us work out the issues with H1-Bs and give people a faster means of obtaining citizenship. It's a win-win, as these people get stay in the US, and Trump can claim companies are now "hiring American."

whack 9y ago

It's worth clarifying a few details here since most people aren't aware of them. - this move is going to deport people with approved green-card applications (i140), the standards for which are much more stringent than the standards for the h1b program - this move affects only Indian citizens and no one else. Not China, not Mexico, not Pakistan, only India. - The reason why Indian citizens are being affected by this, and the reason why they have to wait so long to receive their green cards, is unrelated to their individual credentials. An equally qualified Mexican/Pakistani candidate will receive their green card within 2-3 years. An equally qualified Chinese candidate will receive their green card within 6 years. Indian candidates alone face a wait of 8-9+ years, which is a great kick in the teeth by itself, but this rule will now also deport them. I'm all for H1B reform. I'm all for making the standards more stringent, or raising the minimum-salary thresholds. I'm all for vetting prospective immigrants, and choosing only the best and brightest. But this new tweak does none of those things. It's going to deport tens of thousands of Indians, only Indians, and purely on account of them being Indian. What we're seeing is essentially a 21st century repeat of the Chinese-Exclusion-Act. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

Alfredo123 9y ago
Correct and it really depresses me that no media even bothers report that this rule will not affect anyone but Indians for being Indian and good at their job. (A lot of people claim that H1B are cheap labor but it is worth noting that China, Phillipines, Vietnaam, Pakistan and dozens of other countries have poor people but unable to enter tech the way Indians have. That itself goes to show that whatever reason why American companies want H1B, Indians are damn good at it).