5 ms·

> The scaling and transaction cost issues That's why I'm bullish on Ripple ( Tick = XRP ). Transactions take about 3 seconds vs an hour on Bitcoin [1]. Plus Ri

> The scaling and transaction cost issues That's why I'm bullish on Ripple ( Tick = XRP ). Transactions take about 3 seconds vs an hour on Bitcoin [1]. Plus Ripple's Blockchain technology has real use-cases with about 100 Banks around the world already using it for cross border transfers and liquidity. [1] Source: Ripple CEO on CNBC - https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/7miikv/ripple_ceo_we_use_xrp_to_settle_liquidity_needs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Ripple/comments/7miikv/ripple_ceo_w... Also, here's the No Paywall version of the OP https://archive.is/6BD2U https://archive.is/6BD2U

contrarian_ 9y ago
> Ripple Centralized.
- konschubert 9y ago
  So what. I love decentralized crypto stuff. But let's be real, most people don't care how their payments are processed.
  - pera 9y ago
    I think those people are OK with Visa, MasterCard and PayPal.
    - konschubert 9y ago
      Yes, and this is exactly the market to go for if you wanna go beyond the speculators and crypto nerds (like me).
    - Casseres 9y ago
      So then why do those people need a cryptocurrency?
      - martinko 9y ago
        They dont, thats the point.
  - Anderkent 9y ago
    Sure; but at that point why tie your payment processing protocol to a premined external company, instead of going with something like R3's Corda? If XRP is actually valuable, the risk of compromise of its huge wallet should be really scary for anyone.
- cwkoss 9y ago
  I also have concerns about distribution of coins. I get the feeling that there is a cartel that own 90% of the coins and is keeping them off the market to inflate prices.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    That's my concern about RaiBlocks too. I love that it's zero-fee and instant transfer with no proof of work or mining, but the fact that it's only on a few exchanges with a daily volume of 0.003% of the total supply is... dubious.
- wsc981 9y ago
  Some people might have ethical or technical problems with Ripple, but personally I don't care, as long as it makes some money for me. I own some Ripple, but not much at this moment. In the future I would like to add more to my portfolio, as I believe Ripple will be much less volatile compared to Bitcoin, so that would give more ease of mind. Of course, the profits are likely less as well.
  - Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
    That's fine, but it's really just different from a cryptographic currency. It should be seen as a bank settlement service company, and be treated as such. You can trade the token, which is weird, but it's more like a company stock than anything else.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  Truth lies in the middle, probably people would sacrifice purity for other apparent benefits
- ForRealsies 9y ago
  Ripple is the vehicle the Central Banks use to influence crypto. It's meteoric rise is premeditated.
- shepardrtc 9y ago
  It is becoming more and more decentralized as time goes on. From May of last year: https://ripple.com/insights/how-we-are-further-decentralizing-the-ripple-consensus-ledger-rcl-to-bolster-robustness-for-enterprise-use/ https://ripple.com/insights/how-we-are-further-decentralizin...
wellboy 9y ago
Once the segwit update has been adopted widely (in a few months), transaction cost won't be an issue. Use case is an advantage that Ripple has. However, then again, Ripple is pretty much owned by the banks, so that's a downer.
- annabellish 9y ago
  Of course it will, segwit is not "infinite scaling". It's under 2x, at best. Bitcoin cannot survive on 2, 3, 10, 100, 1000 times scaling. In order to be the "digital cash" the white paper proposes it as it will need to scale to millions of times its current size.
  - wellboy 9y ago
    Where did you find it stated that it's 2x. Isn't it much more, like million to billions times more, since 99.99% of transactions happen off-chain. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5f8w7f/if_both_segwit_and_lightning_get_implemented_how/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5f8w7f/if_both_seg...
    - annabellish 9y ago
      The <2x increase is from SegWit. That post is primarily talking about the Lightning Network, which is _not_ SegWit, is _not_ currently production ready, but _is_ an improvement to scaling. Unfortunately it's a much wider ranging change than SegWit is and has a lot more gotchas and caveats, not least that you're essentially just running a second layer that has nothing to do with bitcoin, save that you need to lock your money in the LN to use it and must do this with a transaction. In order to get money back out of the LN, you need to settle it with the blockchain, which still relies on the blockchain. Essentially, "how fast can SegWit + lightning go" is not actually all that useful a question. SegWit is wildly insufficient to let the LN work as a fast settlement layer over bitcoin because opening and closing LN channels still requires bitcoin transactions, and there simply isn't the throughput for this at scale. The only way that that can work is if we rely on the lightning network completely and effectively ignore bitcoin. In this case it can work, but the LN in this context is a centralised beast because you cannot afford to open new payment channels due to lack of space in the underlying layer. The promise of lightning, way back when, was the idea that you'd be able to instantly send money to your coffee shop via your existing channels with bob and alice, and if you didn't have a path to the coffee shop then it was no big deal beacuse you could just open one, and then you become alice and bob's conduit. Unfortunately, with the lower settlement layer unable to scale, we're in the scenario where you cannot open that payment channel with your coffee shop because you can't afford the fees because even at 4x today's capacity there simply isn't enough room for everyone to open payment channels to their coffee shops. So you open a payment channel once, to your bank or a bank-like entity, and they have payment channels to everyone else. Great, it works, you never touch the blockchain, and it's a centralised system again that has none of the properties people like about cryptocurrencies - whoops!
guildenstern 9y ago
What I don’t understand about Ripple is that from what I’ve read, their partnerships with banks are using their technology not their cryptocurrency, so where does the value in XRP come from? As in, I see the value in the Ripple platform but I don’t see the value in XRP. e.g the American Express announcement explicitly states they are not using XRP. Can you clarify for me? Thank you!
Jommi 9y ago
Why on earth would the value of XRP rise in the long term? The price of one XRP has no impact on its use cases. What is the logic of holding XRP now instead of a currency that is actually constantly burned by its users?

contrarian_ 9y ago

> Ripple Centralized.

konschubert 9y ago
So what. I love decentralized crypto stuff. But let's be real, most people don't care how their payments are processed.
- pera 9y ago
  I think those people are OK with Visa, MasterCard and PayPal.
  - konschubert 9y ago
    Yes, and this is exactly the market to go for if you wanna go beyond the speculators and crypto nerds (like me).
  - Casseres 9y ago
    So then why do those people need a cryptocurrency?
    - martinko 9y ago
      They dont, thats the point.
- Anderkent 9y ago
  Sure; but at that point why tie your payment processing protocol to a premined external company, instead of going with something like R3's Corda? If XRP is actually valuable, the risk of compromise of its huge wallet should be really scary for anyone.
cwkoss 9y ago
I also have concerns about distribution of coins. I get the feeling that there is a cartel that own 90% of the coins and is keeping them off the market to inflate prices.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  That's my concern about RaiBlocks too. I love that it's zero-fee and instant transfer with no proof of work or mining, but the fact that it's only on a few exchanges with a daily volume of 0.003% of the total supply is... dubious.
wsc981 9y ago
Some people might have ethical or technical problems with Ripple, but personally I don't care, as long as it makes some money for me. I own some Ripple, but not much at this moment. In the future I would like to add more to my portfolio, as I believe Ripple will be much less volatile compared to Bitcoin, so that would give more ease of mind. Of course, the profits are likely less as well.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 9y ago
  That's fine, but it's really just different from a cryptographic currency. It should be seen as a bank settlement service company, and be treated as such. You can trade the token, which is weird, but it's more like a company stock than anything else.
agumonkey 9y ago
Truth lies in the middle, probably people would sacrifice purity for other apparent benefits
ForRealsies 9y ago
Ripple is the vehicle the Central Banks use to influence crypto. It's meteoric rise is premeditated.
shepardrtc 9y ago
It is becoming more and more decentralized as time goes on. From May of last year: https://ripple.com/insights/how-we-are-further-decentralizing-the-ripple-consensus-ledger-rcl-to-bolster-robustness-for-enterprise-use/ https://ripple.com/insights/how-we-are-further-decentralizin...

wellboy 9y ago

Once the segwit update has been adopted widely (in a few months), transaction cost won't be an issue. Use case is an advantage that Ripple has. However, then again, Ripple is pretty much owned by the banks, so that's a downer.

annabellish 9y ago
Of course it will, segwit is not "infinite scaling". It's under 2x, at best. Bitcoin cannot survive on 2, 3, 10, 100, 1000 times scaling. In order to be the "digital cash" the white paper proposes it as it will need to scale to millions of times its current size.
- wellboy 9y ago
  Where did you find it stated that it's 2x. Isn't it much more, like million to billions times more, since 99.99% of transactions happen off-chain. https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5f8w7f/if_both_segwit_and_lightning_get_implemented_how/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5f8w7f/if_both_seg...
  - annabellish 9y ago
    The <2x increase is from SegWit. That post is primarily talking about the Lightning Network, which is _not_ SegWit, is _not_ currently production ready, but _is_ an improvement to scaling. Unfortunately it's a much wider ranging change than SegWit is and has a lot more gotchas and caveats, not least that you're essentially just running a second layer that has nothing to do with bitcoin, save that you need to lock your money in the LN to use it and must do this with a transaction. In order to get money back out of the LN, you need to settle it with the blockchain, which still relies on the blockchain. Essentially, "how fast can SegWit + lightning go" is not actually all that useful a question. SegWit is wildly insufficient to let the LN work as a fast settlement layer over bitcoin because opening and closing LN channels still requires bitcoin transactions, and there simply isn't the throughput for this at scale. The only way that that can work is if we rely on the lightning network completely and effectively ignore bitcoin. In this case it can work, but the LN in this context is a centralised beast because you cannot afford to open new payment channels due to lack of space in the underlying layer. The promise of lightning, way back when, was the idea that you'd be able to instantly send money to your coffee shop via your existing channels with bob and alice, and if you didn't have a path to the coffee shop then it was no big deal beacuse you could just open one, and then you become alice and bob's conduit. Unfortunately, with the lower settlement layer unable to scale, we're in the scenario where you cannot open that payment channel with your coffee shop because you can't afford the fees because even at 4x today's capacity there simply isn't enough room for everyone to open payment channels to their coffee shops. So you open a payment channel once, to your bank or a bank-like entity, and they have payment channels to everyone else. Great, it works, you never touch the blockchain, and it's a centralised system again that has none of the properties people like about cryptocurrencies - whoops!

guildenstern 9y ago

What I don’t understand about Ripple is that from what I’ve read, their partnerships with banks are using their technology not their cryptocurrency, so where does the value in XRP come from? As in, I see the value in the Ripple platform but I don’t see the value in XRP. e.g the American Express announcement explicitly states they are not using XRP. Can you clarify for me? Thank you!

Jommi 9y ago

Why on earth would the value of XRP rise in the long term? The price of one XRP has no impact on its use cases. What is the logic of holding XRP now instead of a currency that is actually constantly burned by its users?