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Svelte is not "templates" (i.e. client-side), it compiles to JS modules

by gedy 9y ago

dmitriid 9y ago
Whatever it compiles down to in the end, it's stringly-typed templates with a custom syntax and weird assumptions about code that break everything you know about Javascript: scoping rules, variable declarations etc.
- gedy 9y ago
  Okay, but JSX is not 'just JavaScript' either - it's a DSL embedded in JS. You could make the same argument that Svelte is 'just HTML' with a script block, style block etc.
  - mlsarecmg 9y ago
    Like typescript, flow or even es-next. An optional DSL that transpiles to pure javascript isn't an obstacle to programming. A string-template with an arbitrary syntax is an obstacle on the other hand.
    - Touche 9y ago
      svelte templates compile to "pure javascript".
      - mlsarecmg 9y ago
        All template engines do. JSX doesn't get compiled but transpiled which makes all the difference. Therefore it works with the language, uses latest es-drafts without problems, is 100% typesafe as it can work with other supersets like TS or flow, it also doesn't rely on dependency injection and all the other annoyances. The biggest reason for me to prefer it: JSX is a simple but elegant solution to a decades old problem. A function signature was all it took to allow it to become cross platform and independent of the browser. A template engine comes at the expense of simplicity and flexibility. It needs so many abstraction and circumventions to function, injecting scope, evals, parsers, foreign syntax ... and for what, it most certainly doesn't make things easier.
  - dmitriid 9y ago
    Nope. True, JSX is thin XML-like DSL on top of Javascript. However, it uses Javascript everywhere. It never breaks assumptions about scoping, hoisting, where variables come from etc. You can skip JSX and write `React.createElement` everywhere, and nothing will change. Your code remains Javascript code. Unlike whatever svelte/sapper is. More details in a different comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16053685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16053685 Nothing about svelte is "just HTML with styles and scripts". It's a yet another custom weird templating language with its own custom magic binding rules and a Javascript-like scripting language which breaks all assumptions about Javascript (methods/properties hoisting, invalid scoping rules, automatic data/variable injection etc. etc. etc.). And it's also just strings everywhere. And magic strings (as in "add $ to tell svelte the property comes from a store").

Svelte is not "templates" (i.e. client-side), it compiles to JS modules

by gedy 9y ago

Svelte is not "templates" (i.e. client-side), it compiles to JS modules

Whatever it compiles down to in the end, it's stringly-typed templates with a custom syntax and weird assumptions about code that break everything you know about Javascript: scoping rules, variable declarations etc.

gedy 9y ago
Okay, but JSX is not 'just JavaScript' either - it's a DSL embedded in JS. You could make the same argument that Svelte is 'just HTML' with a script block, style block etc.
- mlsarecmg 9y ago
  Like typescript, flow or even es-next. An optional DSL that transpiles to pure javascript isn't an obstacle to programming. A string-template with an arbitrary syntax is an obstacle on the other hand.
  - Touche 9y ago
    svelte templates compile to "pure javascript".
    - mlsarecmg 9y ago
      All template engines do. JSX doesn't get compiled but transpiled which makes all the difference. Therefore it works with the language, uses latest es-drafts without problems, is 100% typesafe as it can work with other supersets like TS or flow, it also doesn't rely on dependency injection and all the other annoyances. The biggest reason for me to prefer it: JSX is a simple but elegant solution to a decades old problem. A function signature was all it took to allow it to become cross platform and independent of the browser. A template engine comes at the expense of simplicity and flexibility. It needs so many abstraction and circumventions to function, injecting scope, evals, parsers, foreign syntax ... and for what, it most certainly doesn't make things easier.
- dmitriid 9y ago
  Nope. True, JSX is thin XML-like DSL on top of Javascript. However, it uses Javascript everywhere. It never breaks assumptions about scoping, hoisting, where variables come from etc. You can skip JSX and write `React.createElement` everywhere, and nothing will change. Your code remains Javascript code. Unlike whatever svelte/sapper is. More details in a different comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16053685 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16053685 Nothing about svelte is "just HTML with styles and scripts". It's a yet another custom weird templating language with its own custom magic binding rules and a Javascript-like scripting language which breaks all assumptions about Javascript (methods/properties hoisting, invalid scoping rules, automatic data/variable injection etc. etc. etc.). And it's also just strings everywhere. And magic strings (as in "add $ to tell svelte the property comes from a store").