7 ms·

People often tell me, "Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." By being able to get a Bay Area salary (e.g. $150k/year) while wor

People often tell me, "Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." By being able to get a Bay Area salary (e.g. $150k/year) while working from anywhere in the world (e.g. any city where $40k/year is considered comfortable living and $80k/year is considered "well off"), the incentive to continue saturating the area with local talent decreases. Same salary, lower cost of living, AND the ability to be a homeowner in the foreseeable future? That's a hard deal to beat.

pmorici 9y ago
150k sounds way low for the Bay Area you can get that in other much less expensive metro areas.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bayarea123 9y ago
  Does it? Are you including vested stock at a large company? The proportion of talent in the Bay Area is the same - from my experience interviewing people - in other tech hubs. Edit: made less jerky
  - pmorici 9y ago
    Not including stock. Just thinking back to last time I solicited job offers I live in a US metro area with a cost of living about 1/3rd less than SF according to Wolfram Alpha's data and got offers that ranged between 120k and 220k. Anecdotally most of the senior level engineers I know in my area are making between 150 and 200k. Adjusted for cost of living an employer in SF would need to pay something like 200 - 300k to just match their current salaries. Maybe the stock portion of a salary would make up for that difference but I don't see how they are competitive in the wider market if they are paying 150k for senior engineers.
- overcast 9y ago
  No way on this earth, $150,000 is anywhere near normal in the Bay Area, let alone in other less expensive metros. Most people are absolutely not making that much money writing code. People have serious tunnel vision on HN.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    I'm tired of posting and re-posting the links, but according to Glassdoor and Salary.com, median software engineer salary in the bay area is around ~110K. You can criticize the online source but at least it's a data point besides "I totally know a guy working at BigCorp who makes $200K" EDIT: Friends, this is what happens when you post before coffee. As ams6110 points out I'm in violent agreement with the person I'm rebutting. Should have stayed in bed.
    - ams6110 9y ago
      I think you're agreeing with GP? He's saying people are not making that much.
    - overcast 9y ago
      Right, so at the very least half are making less than $110,000 which is $40,000 less than the "everyone is making $150,000" in all major cities. There are a small percentage making a ton of money, and most making normal sub six figure salaries.
      - user5994461 9y ago
        Glassdoor is heavily skewed to new graduates and the salaries are rarely updated after promotions.
  - BoorishBears 9y ago
    I think at some point it comes down to skill of talent too. Most locales also have companies that know that the best talent can go to the Bay Area and make $150,000 and much more, so they offer salaries that are way above normal for the area, but competitive to Bay Area salaries. But if you’re not on that side of the talent scale (or not perceived as being on that side of it), your salary ends up being in line with your locales average salary across multiple industries for “mid level job requiring a bachelors degree”
- blubb-fish 9y ago
  https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/salary/results?l=San+Francisco%2c+CA%2c+United+States&ed=2&ex=5&ff=1&dr%5B0%5D=FullStackDeveloper&tl%5B0%5D=java https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/salary/results?l=San+Francisc... According to SO salary estimator the median salary of a 5y experience Java dev with a masters degree is $108k in SF. Same profile in Hamburg yields €38k and in Paris €42k on average.
xandar11 9y ago
"Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." This could be good for people who send some money back home (e.g. Indians). If you have a high number is absolute terms, then you can send more money to family.
adrianN 9y ago
Well if companies can be have absurd valuations (or even, gasp, be profitable) while paying Bay Area salaries, it makes sense to me to expect to be paid as if you're working in the Bay Area. After all you produce pretty much the same amount of value whether you sit in SF or in Bukarest.

pmorici 9y ago

150k sounds way low for the Bay Area you can get that in other much less expensive metro areas.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bayarea123 9y ago
Does it? Are you including vested stock at a large company? The proportion of talent in the Bay Area is the same - from my experience interviewing people - in other tech hubs. Edit: made less jerky
- pmorici 9y ago
  Not including stock. Just thinking back to last time I solicited job offers I live in a US metro area with a cost of living about 1/3rd less than SF according to Wolfram Alpha's data and got offers that ranged between 120k and 220k. Anecdotally most of the senior level engineers I know in my area are making between 150 and 200k. Adjusted for cost of living an employer in SF would need to pay something like 200 - 300k to just match their current salaries. Maybe the stock portion of a salary would make up for that difference but I don't see how they are competitive in the wider market if they are paying 150k for senior engineers.
overcast 9y ago
No way on this earth, $150,000 is anywhere near normal in the Bay Area, let alone in other less expensive metros. Most people are absolutely not making that much money writing code. People have serious tunnel vision on HN.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  I'm tired of posting and re-posting the links, but according to Glassdoor and Salary.com, median software engineer salary in the bay area is around ~110K. You can criticize the online source but at least it's a data point besides "I totally know a guy working at BigCorp who makes $200K" EDIT: Friends, this is what happens when you post before coffee. As ams6110 points out I'm in violent agreement with the person I'm rebutting. Should have stayed in bed.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    I think you're agreeing with GP? He's saying people are not making that much.
  - overcast 9y ago
    Right, so at the very least half are making less than $110,000 which is $40,000 less than the "everyone is making $150,000" in all major cities. There are a small percentage making a ton of money, and most making normal sub six figure salaries.
    - user5994461 9y ago
      Glassdoor is heavily skewed to new graduates and the salaries are rarely updated after promotions.
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  I think at some point it comes down to skill of talent too. Most locales also have companies that know that the best talent can go to the Bay Area and make $150,000 and much more, so they offer salaries that are way above normal for the area, but competitive to Bay Area salaries. But if you’re not on that side of the talent scale (or not perceived as being on that side of it), your salary ends up being in line with your locales average salary across multiple industries for “mid level job requiring a bachelors degree”
blubb-fish 9y ago
https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/salary/results?l=San+Francisco%2c+CA%2c+United+States&ed=2&ex=5&ff=1&dr%5B0%5D=FullStackDeveloper&tl%5B0%5D=java https://stackoverflow.com/jobs/salary/results?l=San+Francisc... According to SO salary estimator the median salary of a 5y experience Java dev with a masters degree is $108k in SF. Same profile in Hamburg yields €38k and in Paris €42k on average.

xandar11 9y ago

"Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." This could be good for people who send some money back home (e.g. Indians). If you have a high number is absolute terms, then you can send more money to family.

adrianN 9y ago

Well if companies can be have absurd valuations (or even, gasp, be profitable) while paying Bay Area salaries, it makes sense to me to expect to be paid as if you're working in the Bay Area. After all you produce pretty much the same amount of value whether you sit in SF or in Bukarest.