8 ms·

Basecamp is selling all over the world. What should their salary level be like? Bay Area because that’s where a lot of the larger tech companies are situated? W

by flexie 9y ago

Basecamp is selling all over the world. What should their salary level be like? Bay Area because that’s where a lot of the larger tech companies are situated? Washington State (Microsoft, Amazon)? Copenhagen (where one founder, DHH is from)? Sudney where one major competitor, Jira, is from? I’d say whatever the market is that they hire in. If you wanna pay above market rate, by all means do that. If you can attract employees in Chicago for less than Copenhagen or Bay Area salaries, then by all means, feel free to do that. Employees are free to leave. What I don’t see is why all companies should follow Bay Area salaries.

xiphias 9y ago
DHH goes deeply into the discussion about why they do it. It's worth for them as this way they can be very selective and keep the employees happy, also they don't have to think about changing jobs, and the company doesn't have to worry about good employees leaving. They basically treat people as not interchangable.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
CiPHPerCoder 9y ago
People often tell me, "Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." By being able to get a Bay Area salary (e.g. $150k/year) while working from anywhere in the world (e.g. any city where $40k/year is considered comfortable living and $80k/year is considered "well off"), the incentive to continue saturating the area with local talent decreases. Same salary, lower cost of living, AND the ability to be a homeowner in the foreseeable future? That's a hard deal to beat.
- pmorici 9y ago
  150k sounds way low for the Bay Area you can get that in other much less expensive metro areas.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - bayarea123 9y ago
    Does it? Are you including vested stock at a large company? The proportion of talent in the Bay Area is the same - from my experience interviewing people - in other tech hubs. Edit: made less jerky
    - pmorici 9y ago
      Not including stock. Just thinking back to last time I solicited job offers I live in a US metro area with a cost of living about 1/3rd less than SF according to Wolfram Alpha's data and got offers that ranged between 120k and 220k. Anecdotally most of the senior level engineers I know in my area are making between 150 and 200k. Adjusted for cost of living an employer in SF would need to pay something like 200 - 300k to just match their current salaries. Maybe the stock portion of a salary would make up for that difference but I don't see how they are competitive in the wider market if they are paying 150k for senior engineers.
  - overcast 9y ago
    No way on this earth, $150,000 is anywhere near normal in the Bay Area, let alone in other less expensive metros. Most people are absolutely not making that much money writing code. People have serious tunnel vision on HN.
    - ryandrake 9y ago
      I'm tired of posting and re-posting the links, but according to Glassdoor and Salary.com, median software engineer salary in the bay area is around ~110K. You can criticize the online source but at least it's a data point besides "I totally know a guy working at BigCorp who makes $200K" EDIT: Friends, this is what happens when you post before coffee. As ams6110 points out I'm in violent agreement with the person I'm rebutting. Should have stayed in bed.
      - 9y ago
- xandar11 9y ago
  "Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." This could be good for people who send some money back home (e.g. Indians). If you have a high number is absolute terms, then you can send more money to family.
- adrianN 9y ago
  Well if companies can be have absurd valuations (or even, gasp, be profitable) while paying Bay Area salaries, it makes sense to me to expect to be paid as if you're working in the Bay Area. After all you produce pretty much the same amount of value whether you sit in SF or in Bukarest.
cpursley 9y ago
Because all companies are competing with Bay Area companies when it comes to recruiting.
- yeukhon 9y ago
  I think that is changing, as more opening in Seattle, Washington, New York, Boston, Denver and Austin. If I am based in SF/North Cal, yeah, I am okay working in Bay area. Since Bay area is getting more expensive to recruit, companies seem to be more willing to accept more remote workers (but usually limited to senior positions).
- flexie 9y ago
  It's really not true. I'd say that it's more Silicon Valley recruiting all over America, than the rest of the US trying to recruit in Silicon Valley. And even if they did, they don't need to pay SV salaries to compete. Salaries adjusted for taxes and living costs is what matters, and other perks such as the City, family friendly areas etc matter too. And worldwide, Silicon Valley is probably less than 1 percent of all tech hires and less than 10 percent of the top hires. Silicon Valley takes an impressive amount of the top talents for its size, but not most, and almost certainly a decreasing amount. The world is large, and by far the most talents couldn't even get a visa for the US if Google or Apple wanted them.
BeetleB 9y ago
>What I don’t see is why all companies should follow Bay Area salaries. Did anyone suggest they should?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- sidlls 9y ago
  Allow me: I think just about all companies engaged in the business of technology and marketing to the same market segments Bay Area technology companies market to ought to pay the same as their Bay Area counterparts.
majani 9y ago
Arbitrarily high salaries are often more of a retention play for existing employees than anything else. Note how strong the disclaimer was at the end that they're <b>not hiring.</b>

by flexie 9y ago

xiphias 9y ago

DHH goes deeply into the discussion about why they do it. It's worth for them as this way they can be very selective and keep the employees happy, also they don't have to think about changing jobs, and the company doesn't have to worry about good employees leaving. They basically treat people as not interchangable.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

CiPHPerCoder 9y ago

People often tell me, "Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." By being able to get a Bay Area salary (e.g. $150k/year) while working from anywhere in the world (e.g. any city where $40k/year is considered comfortable living and $80k/year is considered "well off"), the incentive to continue saturating the area with local talent decreases. Same salary, lower cost of living, AND the ability to be a homeowner in the foreseeable future? That's a hard deal to beat.

pmorici 9y ago
150k sounds way low for the Bay Area you can get that in other much less expensive metro areas.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bayarea123 9y ago
  Does it? Are you including vested stock at a large company? The proportion of talent in the Bay Area is the same - from my experience interviewing people - in other tech hubs. Edit: made less jerky
  - pmorici 9y ago
    Not including stock. Just thinking back to last time I solicited job offers I live in a US metro area with a cost of living about 1/3rd less than SF according to Wolfram Alpha's data and got offers that ranged between 120k and 220k. Anecdotally most of the senior level engineers I know in my area are making between 150 and 200k. Adjusted for cost of living an employer in SF would need to pay something like 200 - 300k to just match their current salaries. Maybe the stock portion of a salary would make up for that difference but I don't see how they are competitive in the wider market if they are paying 150k for senior engineers.
- overcast 9y ago
  No way on this earth, $150,000 is anywhere near normal in the Bay Area, let alone in other less expensive metros. Most people are absolutely not making that much money writing code. People have serious tunnel vision on HN.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    I'm tired of posting and re-posting the links, but according to Glassdoor and Salary.com, median software engineer salary in the bay area is around ~110K. You can criticize the online source but at least it's a data point besides "I totally know a guy working at BigCorp who makes $200K" EDIT: Friends, this is what happens when you post before coffee. As ams6110 points out I'm in violent agreement with the person I'm rebutting. Should have stayed in bed.
    - 9y ago
xandar11 9y ago
"Yeah the Bay Area is expensive but the tech salaries make up for it." This could be good for people who send some money back home (e.g. Indians). If you have a high number is absolute terms, then you can send more money to family.
adrianN 9y ago
Well if companies can be have absurd valuations (or even, gasp, be profitable) while paying Bay Area salaries, it makes sense to me to expect to be paid as if you're working in the Bay Area. After all you produce pretty much the same amount of value whether you sit in SF or in Bukarest.

cpursley 9y ago

Because all companies are competing with Bay Area companies when it comes to recruiting.

yeukhon 9y ago
I think that is changing, as more opening in Seattle, Washington, New York, Boston, Denver and Austin. If I am based in SF/North Cal, yeah, I am okay working in Bay area. Since Bay area is getting more expensive to recruit, companies seem to be more willing to accept more remote workers (but usually limited to senior positions).
flexie 9y ago
It's really not true. I'd say that it's more Silicon Valley recruiting all over America, than the rest of the US trying to recruit in Silicon Valley. And even if they did, they don't need to pay SV salaries to compete. Salaries adjusted for taxes and living costs is what matters, and other perks such as the City, family friendly areas etc matter too. And worldwide, Silicon Valley is probably less than 1 percent of all tech hires and less than 10 percent of the top hires. Silicon Valley takes an impressive amount of the top talents for its size, but not most, and almost certainly a decreasing amount. The world is large, and by far the most talents couldn't even get a visa for the US if Google or Apple wanted them.

BeetleB 9y ago

>What I don’t see is why all companies should follow Bay Area salaries. Did anyone suggest they should?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
sidlls 9y ago
Allow me: I think just about all companies engaged in the business of technology and marketing to the same market segments Bay Area technology companies market to ought to pay the same as their Bay Area counterparts.

majani 9y ago

Arbitrarily high salaries are often more of a retention play for existing employees than anything else. Note how strong the disclaimer was at the end that they're <b>not hiring.</b>