5 ms·

Except that back then they couldn't see what was in the new world. Now we can (on the moon), and know that there isn't much. Also, it would take a lot more tha

by make3 9y ago

Except that back then they couldn't see what was in the new world. Now we can (on the moon), and know that there isn't much. Also, it would take a lot more than just sending people there for them to be mostly be self sufficient like in the 17th century, because: - there is no oxygen, - there is no food, - there is no water, - there is no magnetosphere.

bonesss 9y ago
We can make [oxygen from moon rocks](https://phys.org/news/2009-08-scientists-oxygen-moon.html https://phys.org/news/2009-08-scientists-oxygen-moon.html). There is [water on the moon](https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/Mini-RF/multimedia/feature_ice_like_deposits.html https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/Mini-RF/multimedia/featur...). With oxygen, water, and power, we can make food. Appropriate radiation shielding is a matter of construction, which could occur on the moon itself using local materials ideally, or building underground enough to be shielded. Moon habitation is something that makes little sense for its own benefit, but immense sense in an orbital supply chain for... I dunno... harvesting a few trillion dollars worth of minerals. Space exploration will not be easy. Navigating accurately across thousands of miles of ocean on [a homemade raft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation) with only a coconut named Wilson and your hands isn't easy either :)
- IdeaHamstir 9y ago
  > With oxygen, water, and power, we can make food. And carbon, nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium... The lunar surface seems to have these elements in short supply, though C-type asteroids can provide many of them.
- mcguire 9y ago
  We are going to need a POC for that. Here's a rock, there's ice in Alaska; go survive. Oh, and you have to do it with mittens on. Good luck!
  - bonesss 9y ago
    Show me the infinity He-3 and Mega-Billions in platinum I can make in an exclusive environment mankind is obligated to conquer on the timeline of a few short hundred years and I will show you some Multi-Billionaires willing to invest heavily as soon as the intersection of orbital access and autonomous robotics is potent enough to mine the crap our of that, and any other, 'Alaska'... Some imagine it will be many decades [never done those before!], until it's cost viable and some imagine 2020 or 2025 [0]. And I think my vision, and Elon Musks, has something more like autonomous driven lunar vehicles powered by machine learning and mesh networks for robust exploration. Like... 15 Teslas talking over wifi but with no traffic, no time limits, no pedestrians, no speed limits or laws against having jump rockets... I totally agree we have to build PoCs, and test new equipment, and do science, and do engineering. But most of the "hard parts" WRT to survival have been done on earth [for a poor ROI on earth!], and the really hard parts WRT time differentials and manufacturing look very much like self driving cars and robots made for the moon or mars. Teslas and Foxconn, friend. Europa is just... what we do every day in Subsea exploration + what we do every day with our _amazing_ rover program. I'm not saying we're there tomorrow. I'm saying that if our robots are there next week making oxygen generators and water pumps and harvesting and collecting, with steady resupplies of better robots and smarter factories, we could Kerbal ourselves f-ing far. H2O is rocket fuel - pure delta-v. Independent mining robots could extract the raw ore for our Expanse/BSG-ish space fleets over the next hundred years, and your grandkids could figure out how to spend an asteroids belt worth of mineral fortune :) There are many Billions being spent on this pursuit today, in 2018. Cynicism aside, sometimes the VCs know a thing or two... - [0] - https://www.inverse.com/article/33556-asteroid-mining-multi-trillion-dollar-business-asteroid-day-2017 https://www.inverse.com/article/33556-asteroid-mining-multi-...
- gozur88 9y ago
  Yes, yes, we can do all that stuff. But why would we? What justifies the expense?

by make3 9y ago

bonesss 9y ago

We can make [oxygen from moon rocks](https://phys.org/news/2009-08-scientists-oxygen-moon.html https://phys.org/news/2009-08-scientists-oxygen-moon.html). There is [water on the moon](https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/Mini-RF/multimedia/feature_ice_like_deposits.html https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/Mini-RF/multimedia/featur...). With oxygen, water, and power, we can make food. Appropriate radiation shielding is a matter of construction, which could occur on the moon itself using local materials ideally, or building underground enough to be shielded. Moon habitation is something that makes little sense for its own benefit, but immense sense in an orbital supply chain for... I dunno... harvesting a few trillion dollars worth of minerals. Space exploration will not be easy. Navigating accurately across thousands of miles of ocean on [a homemade raft](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation) with only a coconut named Wilson and your hands isn't easy either :)

IdeaHamstir 9y ago
> With oxygen, water, and power, we can make food. And carbon, nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium... The lunar surface seems to have these elements in short supply, though C-type asteroids can provide many of them.
mcguire 9y ago
We are going to need a POC for that. Here's a rock, there's ice in Alaska; go survive. Oh, and you have to do it with mittens on. Good luck!
- bonesss 9y ago
  Show me the infinity He-3 and Mega-Billions in platinum I can make in an exclusive environment mankind is obligated to conquer on the timeline of a few short hundred years and I will show you some Multi-Billionaires willing to invest heavily as soon as the intersection of orbital access and autonomous robotics is potent enough to mine the crap our of that, and any other, 'Alaska'... Some imagine it will be many decades [never done those before!], until it's cost viable and some imagine 2020 or 2025 [0]. And I think my vision, and Elon Musks, has something more like autonomous driven lunar vehicles powered by machine learning and mesh networks for robust exploration. Like... 15 Teslas talking over wifi but with no traffic, no time limits, no pedestrians, no speed limits or laws against having jump rockets... I totally agree we have to build PoCs, and test new equipment, and do science, and do engineering. But most of the "hard parts" WRT to survival have been done on earth [for a poor ROI on earth!], and the really hard parts WRT time differentials and manufacturing look very much like self driving cars and robots made for the moon or mars. Teslas and Foxconn, friend. Europa is just... what we do every day in Subsea exploration + what we do every day with our _amazing_ rover program. I'm not saying we're there tomorrow. I'm saying that if our robots are there next week making oxygen generators and water pumps and harvesting and collecting, with steady resupplies of better robots and smarter factories, we could Kerbal ourselves f-ing far. H2O is rocket fuel - pure delta-v. Independent mining robots could extract the raw ore for our Expanse/BSG-ish space fleets over the next hundred years, and your grandkids could figure out how to spend an asteroids belt worth of mineral fortune :) There are many Billions being spent on this pursuit today, in 2018. Cynicism aside, sometimes the VCs know a thing or two... - [0] - https://www.inverse.com/article/33556-asteroid-mining-multi-trillion-dollar-business-asteroid-day-2017 https://www.inverse.com/article/33556-asteroid-mining-multi-...
gozur88 9y ago
Yes, yes, we can do all that stuff. But why would we? What justifies the expense?