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If the problem is just that US employees demand higher pay, wouldn't a simpler (and legal) way of solving this for TCS would just be to offer a salary that they

If the problem is just that US employees demand higher pay, wouldn't a simpler (and legal) way of solving this for TCS would just be to offer a salary that they were planning to offer the Indian workers? If US workers are happy to work for that then fine; nobody loses out.

Annatar 9y ago
No. It’s not that simple. I’m an American who used to work for an Indian consulting company and I worked in the Bay area. The issue is that as an American, I could quit my job at any time because I found employment somewhere else, and at 20+ years of experience (more like 35 actually) I commanded a rate substantially higher than all my Indian colleagues (which were all except for one other American colleague Indian, from India). My Indian colleagues explained to me that they were trapped because of the H1-B visa: since the employer sponsors those, they had to take whatever salary the employer offers or they don’t get the job. They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, whereas I could (and did, but for family reasons). They were effectively stuck and made artificially dependent on the mercy of their Indian consulting companies, for years. Because of this, the consulting companies would pay them the lawful minimum so as not to hit against the dumping laws, which is far below market value. That’s how it works.
- jogjayr 9y ago
  > They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, As someone who's switched jobs on an H1 twice, I can tell you it's simply not true. It's a common misconception because earlier you couldn't change jobs on an H1 but the law around that was changed almost 10 years ago. If you have in-demand skills in 2018 Silicon Valley (JS, Java, Python, anything ML, big data, distributed systems or data science will work a treat) you're going to have recruiters contacting you regardless of your visa status. From my limited knowledge of consulting companies (spent 8 months at the beginning of my career at one), a lot of their employees get very job-specific training in older technologies, understandably because that's the stuff being outsourced. That may be why they felt unable to move - their skills weren't in-demand anywhere else.
  - dccoolgai 9y ago
    Technically you can, but if you have a Green Card application you have to restart the 12-year process over again.
    - 0xcafecafe 9y ago
      Not true. You have to restart the process but can retain the same priority date. Your place in the queue is never lost.
      - dccoolgai 9y ago
        That would come as a pleasant surprise to my friends, who seem to be under the impression (and they are fairly knowledgeable about the process, since it is a sword of Damocles that constantly dangles over them and their families). Also, this seems to indicate otherwise: https://www.murthy.com/2017/11/30/changes-in-employer-employment-and-green-card-processing-2/ https://www.murthy.com/2017/11/30/changes-in-employer-employ... see: "If Employer A is unwilling to go through with the employment offer, the case ends. In that event, the I-485 case cannot proceed, as there is no intent to employ the sponsored worker. The same would be true if the sponsored worker is unwilling or unable to work for the sponsoring employer and wants to stay with the new employer, in this example, Employer B."
        0xcafecafe 9y ago
        It talks about "if current employer is not the GC sponsoring employer". I am saying that job changes are easy IF the new company is willing to sponsor the GC in which case the process restarts (taking about 2 years) but the priority date is retained.
        dccoolgai 9y ago
        (2 years) My friends from India have been waiting 8 years, paid hundreds of thousands in US taxes and are still years away from getting their GC. So I can say with complete certainty that this figure is incorrect. I wish it weren't. But we have an obligation to understand the law and the situation as it exists rather than as we wish it did. These are real people with families, houses, etc. who are afraid every day that by the whim of their employer they'd have to pack up their whole lives and leave at the drop of a hat. No one deserves that.
- thisisit 9y ago
  I might get downvoted for this but I don't feel sorry for these guys as they have made their choice. Over the years, I have routinely seen people who make this exact choice - join the US arm of the outsourcing company for depressed wages. They do it because of the "onsite" allure. I am not judging. I understand why people make this choice - Better life in US. Unfortunately, this comes at a price which no one is liking.

Annatar 9y ago

No. It’s not that simple. I’m an American who used to work for an Indian consulting company and I worked in the Bay area. The issue is that as an American, I could quit my job at any time because I found employment somewhere else, and at 20+ years of experience (more like 35 actually) I commanded a rate substantially higher than all my Indian colleagues (which were all except for one other American colleague Indian, from India). My Indian colleagues explained to me that they were trapped because of the H1-B visa: since the employer sponsors those, they had to take whatever salary the employer offers or they don’t get the job. They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, whereas I could (and did, but for family reasons). They were effectively stuck and made artificially dependent on the mercy of their Indian consulting companies, for years. Because of this, the consulting companies would pay them the lawful minimum so as not to hit against the dumping laws, which is far below market value. That’s how it works.

jogjayr 9y ago
> They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, As someone who's switched jobs on an H1 twice, I can tell you it's simply not true. It's a common misconception because earlier you couldn't change jobs on an H1 but the law around that was changed almost 10 years ago. If you have in-demand skills in 2018 Silicon Valley (JS, Java, Python, anything ML, big data, distributed systems or data science will work a treat) you're going to have recruiters contacting you regardless of your visa status. From my limited knowledge of consulting companies (spent 8 months at the beginning of my career at one), a lot of their employees get very job-specific training in older technologies, understandably because that's the stuff being outsourced. That may be why they felt unable to move - their skills weren't in-demand anywhere else.
- dccoolgai 9y ago
  Technically you can, but if you have a Green Card application you have to restart the 12-year process over again.
  - 0xcafecafe 9y ago
    Not true. You have to restart the process but can retain the same priority date. Your place in the queue is never lost.
    - dccoolgai 9y ago
      That would come as a pleasant surprise to my friends, who seem to be under the impression (and they are fairly knowledgeable about the process, since it is a sword of Damocles that constantly dangles over them and their families). Also, this seems to indicate otherwise: https://www.murthy.com/2017/11/30/changes-in-employer-employment-and-green-card-processing-2/ https://www.murthy.com/2017/11/30/changes-in-employer-employ... see: "If Employer A is unwilling to go through with the employment offer, the case ends. In that event, the I-485 case cannot proceed, as there is no intent to employ the sponsored worker. The same would be true if the sponsored worker is unwilling or unable to work for the sponsoring employer and wants to stay with the new employer, in this example, Employer B."
      - 0xcafecafe 9y ago
        It talks about "if current employer is not the GC sponsoring employer". I am saying that job changes are easy IF the new company is willing to sponsor the GC in which case the process restarts (taking about 2 years) but the priority date is retained.
        dccoolgai 9y ago
        (2 years) My friends from India have been waiting 8 years, paid hundreds of thousands in US taxes and are still years away from getting their GC. So I can say with complete certainty that this figure is incorrect. I wish it weren't. But we have an obligation to understand the law and the situation as it exists rather than as we wish it did. These are real people with families, houses, etc. who are afraid every day that by the whim of their employer they'd have to pack up their whole lives and leave at the drop of a hat. No one deserves that.
thisisit 9y ago
I might get downvoted for this but I don't feel sorry for these guys as they have made their choice. Over the years, I have routinely seen people who make this exact choice - join the US arm of the outsourcing company for depressed wages. They do it because of the "onsite" allure. I am not judging. I understand why people make this choice - Better life in US. Unfortunately, this comes at a price which no one is liking.