5 ms·

The point is, part of the deal was that worthy individual would have a shot at being recruited instead of completely let go and TCS did not make a good faith ef

The point is, part of the deal was that worthy individual would have a shot at being recruited instead of completely let go and TCS did not make a good faith effort as part of the deal, and the deal was for the optics. This is not a white or black thing as you are trying to interject race into this. Its more like, if I hire from India I do not have to pay "premium", that is the part of the discrimination. Even if Mr.Buchanan was Black Transgender Women with two kittens, he would not have a shot, the point is the he never had a shot at being re-employed under the new structure.

tejaswiy 9y ago
Your argument would be correct if no American from the company was re-hired by TCS which I don't think is the case. Outsourcing efforts at companies usually start with part of the workforce / couple of projects outsourced to a major outsourcer. This gives them partial insider information on the competence / political scenario / compensation in the company. I wouldn't be surprised if TCS worked with company management to figure out who would be retained based on these 3 variables and let others go without their fair shot even if they were qualified. While this sucks for a candidate, I don't think you can allege discrimination based on this.
- sremani 9y ago
  My point is there was no good faith effort to retain, the dye has been cast long before and promises were made for optics. You can nitpick this, but that is my larger point, which you seem to validate in your "explanation". I am not fool enough to think a cost-arbitrage company would hire an American as their first second or third option. Its a given that its only last resort for most cases and that too, it skews to the extremes of competence or keeping the politics stable.
  - andrewaylett 9y ago
    Since you mentioned nit-picking, I'll nit-pick :). You mean "die", as in the singular of "dice".
    - aaronblohowiak 9y ago
      I believe it is a reference to die as in manufacturing dies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(manufacturing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(manufacturing) basically the phrase is like “the mould is set”
      - grzm 9y ago
        I believe your parent has it right: cast in this case means thrown or tossed. "to cause to move or send forth by throwing cast a fishing lure cast dice", sense 1a here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cast https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cast - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_die_is_cast https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_die_is_cast - https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/die+is+cast https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/die+is+cast
        aaronblohowiak 9y ago
        fascinating! thank you!
      - 35bge57dtjku 9y ago
        Isn't likely to be from dice because it's such an ancient expression, like from Roman times?
        aninhumer 9y ago
        Yeah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alea_iacta_est https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alea_iacta_est
    - hbarka 9y ago
      Trivial detour. Remani hits the point.
  - walshemj 9y ago
    Your right which is why the EU has TUPE to stop abuse of employees when a company is taken over.
ascorbic 9y ago
If the problem is just that US employees demand higher pay, wouldn't a simpler (and legal) way of solving this for TCS would just be to offer a salary that they were planning to offer the Indian workers? If US workers are happy to work for that then fine; nobody loses out.
- Annatar 9y ago
  No. It’s not that simple. I’m an American who used to work for an Indian consulting company and I worked in the Bay area. The issue is that as an American, I could quit my job at any time because I found employment somewhere else, and at 20+ years of experience (more like 35 actually) I commanded a rate substantially higher than all my Indian colleagues (which were all except for one other American colleague Indian, from India). My Indian colleagues explained to me that they were trapped because of the H1-B visa: since the employer sponsors those, they had to take whatever salary the employer offers or they don’t get the job. They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, whereas I could (and did, but for family reasons). They were effectively stuck and made artificially dependent on the mercy of their Indian consulting companies, for years. Because of this, the consulting companies would pay them the lawful minimum so as not to hit against the dumping laws, which is far below market value. That’s how it works.
  - jogjayr 9y ago
    > They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, As someone who's switched jobs on an H1 twice, I can tell you it's simply not true. It's a common misconception because earlier you couldn't change jobs on an H1 but the law around that was changed almost 10 years ago. If you have in-demand skills in 2018 Silicon Valley (JS, Java, Python, anything ML, big data, distributed systems or data science will work a treat) you're going to have recruiters contacting you regardless of your visa status. From my limited knowledge of consulting companies (spent 8 months at the beginning of my career at one), a lot of their employees get very job-specific training in older technologies, understandably because that's the stuff being outsourced. That may be why they felt unable to move - their skills weren't in-demand anywhere else.

tejaswiy 9y ago

Your argument would be correct if no American from the company was re-hired by TCS which I don't think is the case. Outsourcing efforts at companies usually start with part of the workforce / couple of projects outsourced to a major outsourcer. This gives them partial insider information on the competence / political scenario / compensation in the company. I wouldn't be surprised if TCS worked with company management to figure out who would be retained based on these 3 variables and let others go without their fair shot even if they were qualified. While this sucks for a candidate, I don't think you can allege discrimination based on this.

sremani 9y ago
My point is there was no good faith effort to retain, the dye has been cast long before and promises were made for optics. You can nitpick this, but that is my larger point, which you seem to validate in your "explanation". I am not fool enough to think a cost-arbitrage company would hire an American as their first second or third option. Its a given that its only last resort for most cases and that too, it skews to the extremes of competence or keeping the politics stable.
- andrewaylett 9y ago
  Since you mentioned nit-picking, I'll nit-pick :). You mean "die", as in the singular of "dice".
  - aaronblohowiak 9y ago
    I believe it is a reference to die as in manufacturing dies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(manufacturing) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(manufacturing) basically the phrase is like “the mould is set”
    - grzm 9y ago
      I believe your parent has it right: cast in this case means thrown or tossed. "to cause to move or send forth by throwing cast a fishing lure cast dice", sense 1a here: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cast https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cast - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_die_is_cast https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/the_die_is_cast - https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/die+is+cast https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/die+is+cast
      - aaronblohowiak 9y ago
        fascinating! thank you!
    - 35bge57dtjku 9y ago
      Isn't likely to be from dice because it's such an ancient expression, like from Roman times?
      - aninhumer 9y ago
        Yeah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alea_iacta_est https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alea_iacta_est
  - hbarka 9y ago
    Trivial detour. Remani hits the point.
- walshemj 9y ago
  Your right which is why the EU has TUPE to stop abuse of employees when a company is taken over.

ascorbic 9y ago

If the problem is just that US employees demand higher pay, wouldn't a simpler (and legal) way of solving this for TCS would just be to offer a salary that they were planning to offer the Indian workers? If US workers are happy to work for that then fine; nobody loses out.

Annatar 9y ago
No. It’s not that simple. I’m an American who used to work for an Indian consulting company and I worked in the Bay area. The issue is that as an American, I could quit my job at any time because I found employment somewhere else, and at 20+ years of experience (more like 35 actually) I commanded a rate substantially higher than all my Indian colleagues (which were all except for one other American colleague Indian, from India). My Indian colleagues explained to me that they were trapped because of the H1-B visa: since the employer sponsors those, they had to take whatever salary the employer offers or they don’t get the job. They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, whereas I could (and did, but for family reasons). They were effectively stuck and made artificially dependent on the mercy of their Indian consulting companies, for years. Because of this, the consulting companies would pay them the lawful minimum so as not to hit against the dumping laws, which is far below market value. That’s how it works.
- jogjayr 9y ago
  > They also can’t apply for another job nor switch jobs because of it, As someone who's switched jobs on an H1 twice, I can tell you it's simply not true. It's a common misconception because earlier you couldn't change jobs on an H1 but the law around that was changed almost 10 years ago. If you have in-demand skills in 2018 Silicon Valley (JS, Java, Python, anything ML, big data, distributed systems or data science will work a treat) you're going to have recruiters contacting you regardless of your visa status. From my limited knowledge of consulting companies (spent 8 months at the beginning of my career at one), a lot of their employees get very job-specific training in older technologies, understandably because that's the stuff being outsourced. That may be why they felt unable to move - their skills weren't in-demand anywhere else.