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It's really simple, these companies are using cheap labour while making a huge profit in dollars. They can under quote other companies because of this. Taking i

It's really simple, these companies are using cheap labour while making a huge profit in dollars. They can under quote other companies because of this. Taking in natives mean pay has to be high.

murukesh_s 9y ago
Not just the pay, H1b employees need to stick around as it's difficult to shift to another company, especially if they are processing green card. Also they tend to work longer hours, as I have seen personally, though that doesn't necessarily produce more quality, but most of the corporates who hire from TCS or other outsourcing firms want 24/7 routine jobs like production support, junior developers or testing. Even for development they use the same stack for decades so there is pretty much nothing more to build or learn, but minor patches and fixes here and there, which is barely interesting for anyone other than who want to stick around for the lack of other opportunities.. p.s. I am from India and have worked in U.S for couple of months for a large bank.
- knowThySelfx 9y ago
  Yeah, its like a glorified sweatshop. Is it any wonder that these companies don't get any respect.
- ajmurmann 9y ago
  I think the H1B restrictions you touch on are a big part of the problem. If it was easy for H1B holders to change employers the market would be allowed to correct this. The H1B holders could demand market rate and proper treatment. Right now it's completely distorted.
  - garyfirestorm 9y ago
    Unfortunately lot of people fail to see H1B's outside of silicon valley and H1Bs = cheap (indian) IT labor = bodyshops... Many fields demand multidisciplinary knowledge (for eg. automotive) we need people who understand physics (mechanical engineering), signal processing, algorithms, data analysis, programming etc. There's a huge shortage of people who are willing to dabble in multidisciplinary fields. Step into any automotive company and ask the engineers if they know how to code or use large amounts of data effectively. You will be surprised. I have seen H1B folks overcome tough challenges and put huge amount of effort in making amazing products. Generalizing and bashing H1B's is not fair, neither is making regulations from SV point of view. p.s. I work in one of the big 3's. I am on H1B and I have never accepted bare minimum salary. I am not an IT guy.
    - thrwaway657 9y ago
      Big tech companies hire only a small percentage of H1Bs. You are generalizing a special case. The vast majority of the visas are used to undercut American wages. Period.
    - Annatar 9y ago
      As a car enthusiast and a system engineer / architect I’d love a shot at working in the car industry. I never see advertisements for those jobs though; they are mythical. That aside, nobody so far has been bashing H1B’s, on the contrary: all the comments so far are for H1B liberalization (H1B’s should’t be tied to a particular employer) so that the loan dumping could stop and so that competition could take place based on experience and competence. The problem is greedy managers going after “shareholder value” (their bonuses and promotions) and corrupt politicians who knew the situation and yet didn’t step in.
      - garyfirestorm 9y ago
        working in car industry for about 3-4 yrs. I can assure you these jobs are not mythical. read this article - https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/harman-wants-quiet-ride-using-tech-behind-noise-cancelling-headphones/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/harman-wants-quiet-ride-u... skills required - fundamentals of acoustics, vibrations, signal processing, algorithms, coding, managing huge amounts of data, optimization, controls etc..... this is just one technology. there are many more things that go in a car and are way more complex than active noise cancellation.
    - ajmurmann 9y ago
      Sorry, I did by no means intend to bash H1B visa holders. I agree that it's only a small portion in one particular industry that's causing that perception. That makes it even more important though to not constraint H1B holder's choices artificially.
    - murukesh_s 9y ago
      There is absolutely no bashing of H1B done here. What you say about multidisciplinary knowledge is true. I bet many of the Indian CEOs and co-founders came via H1B itself. But that was not the point. The majority of H1B holders are low paid workers bought here not just because of lack of skills, but also due to low pay and willingness to work shifts etc etc.. We can't deny that.
- innagadadavida 9y ago
  Don’t let your disgruntled self make generalizations about everybody else. I’m curious what the justice department finds out. In America the law is supreme so just wait for it to conclude instead of making baseless statements in a public form.
  - knowThySelfx 9y ago
    He was stating his own experience - so that is his basis. When you work at some place you also see whats going on in there generally. He was not commenting about the "bias" which is what TCS is facing trial for.
mavelikara 9y ago
> Taking in natives mean pay has to be high. More than pay, it is the "culture fit" that these companies seem to care more for. The business model of these companies involve getting most of the work done in India. For that to work, one needs phone calls at odd hours. An Indian employee will be more willing to accommodate these demands to attend work-related calls at odd hours. As regulation around H-1B and similar work visas tighten, Indian outsourcers are trying to hire people of Indian origin who have green cards or are American citizens. I know from a handful of acquaintances that these employees are paid well - hence my thesis that it really isn't about the money.
- knowThySelfx 9y ago
  Hiring Green card holders or Indian's of American citizenship is a different matter. They aren't gonna work for the salary of an Indian citizen on H1B. The equation changes there. I agree, there could be a cultural angle. But I don't think that is the main reason.
  - mavelikara 9y ago
    > Hiring Green card holders or Indian's of American citizenship is a different matter. They aren't gonna work for the salary of an Indian citizen on H1B. The equation changes there. The savings from the salaries of few US employees does not change "the equation", as you put it, for global outsourcing companies - Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, IBM GS, Capgemini, Accenture etc - who make tens of billions per year, and employ hundreds of thousand people.
    - knowThySelfx 9y ago
      In TCS, is the salary scale same for Indians on H1B and American Citizens? (Assuming they are equally qualified/competent)
      - mavelikara 9y ago
        I don't know. From anecdotal reports I have heard, they don't hire from both classes of people for equivalent positions.

It's really simple, these companies are using cheap labour while making a huge profit in dollars. They can under quote other companies because of this. Taking in natives mean pay has to be high.

murukesh_s 9y ago

Not just the pay, H1b employees need to stick around as it's difficult to shift to another company, especially if they are processing green card. Also they tend to work longer hours, as I have seen personally, though that doesn't necessarily produce more quality, but most of the corporates who hire from TCS or other outsourcing firms want 24/7 routine jobs like production support, junior developers or testing. Even for development they use the same stack for decades so there is pretty much nothing more to build or learn, but minor patches and fixes here and there, which is barely interesting for anyone other than who want to stick around for the lack of other opportunities.. p.s. I am from India and have worked in U.S for couple of months for a large bank.

knowThySelfx 9y ago
Yeah, its like a glorified sweatshop. Is it any wonder that these companies don't get any respect.
ajmurmann 9y ago
I think the H1B restrictions you touch on are a big part of the problem. If it was easy for H1B holders to change employers the market would be allowed to correct this. The H1B holders could demand market rate and proper treatment. Right now it's completely distorted.
- garyfirestorm 9y ago
  Unfortunately lot of people fail to see H1B's outside of silicon valley and H1Bs = cheap (indian) IT labor = bodyshops... Many fields demand multidisciplinary knowledge (for eg. automotive) we need people who understand physics (mechanical engineering), signal processing, algorithms, data analysis, programming etc. There's a huge shortage of people who are willing to dabble in multidisciplinary fields. Step into any automotive company and ask the engineers if they know how to code or use large amounts of data effectively. You will be surprised. I have seen H1B folks overcome tough challenges and put huge amount of effort in making amazing products. Generalizing and bashing H1B's is not fair, neither is making regulations from SV point of view. p.s. I work in one of the big 3's. I am on H1B and I have never accepted bare minimum salary. I am not an IT guy.
  - thrwaway657 9y ago
    Big tech companies hire only a small percentage of H1Bs. You are generalizing a special case. The vast majority of the visas are used to undercut American wages. Period.
  - Annatar 9y ago
    As a car enthusiast and a system engineer / architect I’d love a shot at working in the car industry. I never see advertisements for those jobs though; they are mythical. That aside, nobody so far has been bashing H1B’s, on the contrary: all the comments so far are for H1B liberalization (H1B’s should’t be tied to a particular employer) so that the loan dumping could stop and so that competition could take place based on experience and competence. The problem is greedy managers going after “shareholder value” (their bonuses and promotions) and corrupt politicians who knew the situation and yet didn’t step in.
    - garyfirestorm 9y ago
      working in car industry for about 3-4 yrs. I can assure you these jobs are not mythical. read this article - https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/harman-wants-quiet-ride-using-tech-behind-noise-cancelling-headphones/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/harman-wants-quiet-ride-u... skills required - fundamentals of acoustics, vibrations, signal processing, algorithms, coding, managing huge amounts of data, optimization, controls etc..... this is just one technology. there are many more things that go in a car and are way more complex than active noise cancellation.
  - ajmurmann 9y ago
    Sorry, I did by no means intend to bash H1B visa holders. I agree that it's only a small portion in one particular industry that's causing that perception. That makes it even more important though to not constraint H1B holder's choices artificially.
  - murukesh_s 9y ago
    There is absolutely no bashing of H1B done here. What you say about multidisciplinary knowledge is true. I bet many of the Indian CEOs and co-founders came via H1B itself. But that was not the point. The majority of H1B holders are low paid workers bought here not just because of lack of skills, but also due to low pay and willingness to work shifts etc etc.. We can't deny that.
innagadadavida 9y ago
Don’t let your disgruntled self make generalizations about everybody else. I’m curious what the justice department finds out. In America the law is supreme so just wait for it to conclude instead of making baseless statements in a public form.
- knowThySelfx 9y ago
  He was stating his own experience - so that is his basis. When you work at some place you also see whats going on in there generally. He was not commenting about the "bias" which is what TCS is facing trial for.

mavelikara 9y ago

> Taking in natives mean pay has to be high. More than pay, it is the "culture fit" that these companies seem to care more for. The business model of these companies involve getting most of the work done in India. For that to work, one needs phone calls at odd hours. An Indian employee will be more willing to accommodate these demands to attend work-related calls at odd hours. As regulation around H-1B and similar work visas tighten, Indian outsourcers are trying to hire people of Indian origin who have green cards or are American citizens. I know from a handful of acquaintances that these employees are paid well - hence my thesis that it really isn't about the money.

knowThySelfx 9y ago
Hiring Green card holders or Indian's of American citizenship is a different matter. They aren't gonna work for the salary of an Indian citizen on H1B. The equation changes there. I agree, there could be a cultural angle. But I don't think that is the main reason.
- mavelikara 9y ago
  > Hiring Green card holders or Indian's of American citizenship is a different matter. They aren't gonna work for the salary of an Indian citizen on H1B. The equation changes there. The savings from the salaries of few US employees does not change "the equation", as you put it, for global outsourcing companies - Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, IBM GS, Capgemini, Accenture etc - who make tens of billions per year, and employ hundreds of thousand people.
  - knowThySelfx 9y ago
    In TCS, is the salary scale same for Indians on H1B and American Citizens? (Assuming they are equally qualified/competent)
    - mavelikara 9y ago
      I don't know. From anecdotal reports I have heard, they don't hire from both classes of people for equivalent positions.