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So, in an effort to talk about controversial subjects in a substantive way, this seems like a pretty good litmus test to figure out whether I fit in here. I've

So, in an effort to talk about controversial subjects in a substantive way, this seems like a pretty good litmus test to figure out whether I fit in here. I've been deciding whether to stay or leave. Here's a topic. There are a few subreddits on /r/all which you can't help but notice are filled with partly, shall we say, not strictly legal porn. And I didn't go out of my way to find these. Reddit lobbed them at me because that's what /r/all does, and if I want to see /r/all (and not /r/popular, which filters out various subreddits that happen not to fit their "popularity" criteria) then that's what I get. I really don't want to provide links for obvious reasons. I thought about it. But that seems stretching this. Suffice to say, there exists some integer N where N is less than 18, despite claims to the contrary. What should be done, if anything? These are consensual pictures, posted by young adults who understand the implications of what they're doing. They do not need protection. The other way to look at it is that they're kids who really don't know what they're getting themselves into. I don't know how to feel. So, there you go.

mschuster91 9y ago
> The other way to look at it is that they're kids who really don't know what they're getting themselves into. Yep, most don't until some random schoolmate finds their boobs on r/all and spreads it over the whole school. Kids have committed suicide after such events. The problem could easily be avoided by actually training young people to be IT literate. Every politician and their dog tries to put in "IT" classes which are either ultra-basic programming in Java (or ultra-simple "languages" such as Robot Karol) and try to sell it as "we train our kids for the digital society" (LOL WTF), how to use Word, Excel and Powerpoint (which actually has relevance in the future career of the kids, but locks them into the MS ecosystem!) or a combination of the two... and that's it. Lots of schools also don't have anything, due to a lack of funds for Internet, wifi/BYOD infrastructure, devices and teachers. Not to mention what to do with poor kids which have only a $50 worn-down third-hand smartphone. Stuff like "how do I navigate the Internet without exposing me to risk" is something I have yet to see - and it's extremely hard to do, because of the constant evolution. For example, I am 26, work in marketing (as a dev/sysop though) and have no idea how Snapchat works and why the young kids like it so much. Many in my social circle don't, either. So, how should teachers be prepared to teach their students on Snapchat and the involved risks (e.g. that the pic of their wiener/boob they're about to send to their partner might be screenshotted!) when they don't know the service either - and it keeps on evolving and evolving? Should we as a society rely on teachers having to learn new stuff in their free time, without compensation or proper training? And what do we do with home-schooled kids? They're the worst-off because there is no training for the parents required.
evincarofautumn 9y ago
It’s…a hard problem. I think it’s normal and natural for young people to explore their bodies & sexuality and share that experience with each other. It’s fraught on all sides with problems, though—when it gets shared with the world, either by choice or by betrayal; when the people involved are very young or even prepubescent; when adults use their power and maturity to exploit them; and so on. I started having sex when I was 14, after waiting for a long time with the same partner, and I feel like I personally was mature enough to handle it responsibly. That doesn’t mean all 14-year-olds should be doing that. And the concept of consent here, doing normal activities like having sex and sharing images of yourself, is murky—I did things that were illegal, but (I feel) neither wrong nor harmful. Maybe the law just needs to be more adaptable somehow. But I feel like there’s always going to be tension between expressing yourself and being protected from exploitation.
- sillysaurus3 9y ago
  Apparently in Germany the age of consent is 14, and if someone over 21 interacts with someone near 14, a hearing can be convened to determine whether this was justified. I heard this secondhand on Reddit, so I have no idea whether it's true, effective, or what the implications would be. But it seemed like a sensible and tidy system, if one existed. (EDIT: indeed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Germ...) I was similarly active at around 14, and it didn't really affect me much. But on the other hand, that's only a few years after it's even possible, so it's hard to grok the gravity of it. Especially at that age. You're right – it's simply hard to figure out how much protection, and where, should be applied.
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > I heard this secondhand on Reddit, so I have no idea whether it's true, effective, or what the implications would be. as a German, yes this is correct. Additionally: as long as both involved are >14, the parent(s) have to file a complaint, which is the reason why these cases are very rare - even for e.g. 13/15 combination (which would be illegal) I don't know any case without having to resort to Google. Both courts and the general public treat the entire matter responsibly, although the latter has shifted a bit, if one involved party is a refugee - that sends the German alt-right into a frenzy every time there is any hint of suspicion. But still, it's far, far away from what hits HN/Reddit every couple of months from the US.

mschuster91 9y ago

> The other way to look at it is that they're kids who really don't know what they're getting themselves into. Yep, most don't until some random schoolmate finds their boobs on r/all and spreads it over the whole school. Kids have committed suicide after such events. The problem could easily be avoided by actually training young people to be IT literate. Every politician and their dog tries to put in "IT" classes which are either ultra-basic programming in Java (or ultra-simple "languages" such as Robot Karol) and try to sell it as "we train our kids for the digital society" (LOL WTF), how to use Word, Excel and Powerpoint (which actually has relevance in the future career of the kids, but locks them into the MS ecosystem!) or a combination of the two... and that's it. Lots of schools also don't have anything, due to a lack of funds for Internet, wifi/BYOD infrastructure, devices and teachers. Not to mention what to do with poor kids which have only a $50 worn-down third-hand smartphone. Stuff like "how do I navigate the Internet without exposing me to risk" is something I have yet to see - and it's extremely hard to do, because of the constant evolution. For example, I am 26, work in marketing (as a dev/sysop though) and have no idea how Snapchat works and why the young kids like it so much. Many in my social circle don't, either. So, how should teachers be prepared to teach their students on Snapchat and the involved risks (e.g. that the pic of their wiener/boob they're about to send to their partner might be screenshotted!) when they don't know the service either - and it keeps on evolving and evolving? Should we as a society rely on teachers having to learn new stuff in their free time, without compensation or proper training? And what do we do with home-schooled kids? They're the worst-off because there is no training for the parents required.

evincarofautumn 9y ago

It’s…a hard problem. I think it’s normal and natural for young people to explore their bodies & sexuality and share that experience with each other. It’s fraught on all sides with problems, though—when it gets shared with the world, either by choice or by betrayal; when the people involved are very young or even prepubescent; when adults use their power and maturity to exploit them; and so on. I started having sex when I was 14, after waiting for a long time with the same partner, and I feel like I personally was mature enough to handle it responsibly. That doesn’t mean all 14-year-olds should be doing that. And the concept of consent here, doing normal activities like having sex and sharing images of yourself, is murky—I did things that were illegal, but (I feel) neither wrong nor harmful. Maybe the law just needs to be more adaptable somehow. But I feel like there’s always going to be tension between expressing yourself and being protected from exploitation.

sillysaurus3 9y ago
Apparently in Germany the age of consent is 14, and if someone over 21 interacts with someone near 14, a hearing can be convened to determine whether this was justified. I heard this secondhand on Reddit, so I have no idea whether it's true, effective, or what the implications would be. But it seemed like a sensible and tidy system, if one existed. (EDIT: indeed, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe#Germ...) I was similarly active at around 14, and it didn't really affect me much. But on the other hand, that's only a few years after it's even possible, so it's hard to grok the gravity of it. Especially at that age. You're right – it's simply hard to figure out how much protection, and where, should be applied.
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > I heard this secondhand on Reddit, so I have no idea whether it's true, effective, or what the implications would be. as a German, yes this is correct. Additionally: as long as both involved are >14, the parent(s) have to file a complaint, which is the reason why these cases are very rare - even for e.g. 13/15 combination (which would be illegal) I don't know any case without having to resort to Google. Both courts and the general public treat the entire matter responsibly, although the latter has shifted a bit, if one involved party is a refugee - that sends the German alt-right into a frenzy every time there is any hint of suspicion. But still, it's far, far away from what hits HN/Reddit every couple of months from the US.