8 ms·

i wonder how visual methods like this could monitor for sign of voter fraud. you could probably film polling places and use peoples faces as ids, and clothes an

i wonder how visual methods like this could monitor for sign of voter fraud. you could probably film polling places and use peoples faces as ids, and clothes and gender and age to get some reasonable estimates

sandworm101 9y ago
Such a system would need to be massively perfect to catch the three people actually doing real voter fraud. That aside, filming people as they vote to see if they are voting the correct way, as people of thier backgrounds and neighbourhoods are expected to vote? Better get some great lawyers, if any would even attempt to defend such a thing.
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  nah, i meant lines outside- just as a ballpark.
  - sandworm101 9y ago
    Waiting in line is part of the voting process. Any sort of measurement of people waiting in lines will be a constitutional issue. What will the outcome be? A measurement saying too many poor people voted in an area?
    - nine_k 9y ago
      It could detect the carousel fraud, people voting repeatedly.
      - walshemj 9y ago
        why then is there no evidence of this happening regularly - this isn't the pre ww2 machine politics days.
        topmonk 9y ago
        Yes, there is evidence: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fr... There is also the MSM's tendency not to investigate, due to political correctness, the government's tendency to stone-wall to avoid looking incompetent, and the politicians' tendency to not pass laws that would hinder their chances of winning the next election.
        jcranmer 9y ago
        That's not evidence, for the most part. One thing about voter fraud: a lot of people who complain about how much it's happening love to cite the existence of inaccurate voter rolls. Those exist in spades, and no one doubts that. But every election, we compile a list of everyone who voted, so it should be a very easy matter to translate inaccuracies in registration to actual instances of voter fraud. Note that instead of citing actual counts, there's almost invariably a citation of potential fraud--and that's because the actual counts do not bear out the claims. Of course, the biggest reason that inaccurate voter registrations exist is because people don't contact the registries to tell them they've moved, and the government hasn't put much effort into trying to track down people when they move and actually update all the various registries. Cynically, one can suggest that the reason for the latter is that politicians would rather continue using the inaccurate voter registrations as an excuse to conduct voter intimidation than actually fix the problem.
        squiggleblaz 9y ago
        It's definitely the case that, in Australia, when automatic registration was introduced it was introduced and supported by the left-of-centre parties who pundits suppose would benefit from having extra voters on the roll, and weakly opposed by the right-of-centre parties who pundits suppose would be hurt from having the voters on the roll. But honestly, the idea that the government should track people down to put them in a registry strikes me as really unamerican, especially when you put it that way. I can imagine Democrats who would stand to benefit from it being like "That sounds yuck".
isaac_is_goat 9y ago
Why not just require government issued photo ID to vote?
- the_cat_kittles 9y ago
  i feel like i accidentally stumbled in to a r talking point. but ill take the bait: the id doesnt do anything to show you irregularities between the demographics and the results
- walshemj 9y ago
  Because You can use this to discriminate charge even $100 for this and it locks out poor and homeless people or you close places where you can register in the areas of where more of your opposition live.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- cryptoz 9y ago
  It is the right of the citizens to vote. Citizens are not required to have government issued photo ID. If you make government issued photo ID a requirement to vote, you have violated the constitution and prevented legal citizens from voting. Voter fraud is not a real problem. Election fraud is, and election fraud is often carried out by removing legal citizens' right to vote, just as you described. When you see a state making laws about what ID you need to vote, you are watching election fraud in action.
  - beamatronic 9y ago
    How do you prove you are a citizen?
    - cryptoz 9y ago
      You do not need to prove you are a citizen to vote. Voter registration requirements vary state to state. Typically states will request some form of identification, like a social security number, or a birth certificate, or something like that, if you do not have a photo ID, so they can verify who you are and that you did not vote twice. A government issued photo ID, or other proof of citizenship, is not required. That would be unconstitutional. Edit: California will even allow you to use a utility bill with your name and address as valid ID to vote, for example. No photo ID or citizenship requirement, and no voter fraud happening in California either.

sandworm101 9y ago

Such a system would need to be massively perfect to catch the three people actually doing real voter fraud. That aside, filming people as they vote to see if they are voting the correct way, as people of thier backgrounds and neighbourhoods are expected to vote? Better get some great lawyers, if any would even attempt to defend such a thing.

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
nah, i meant lines outside- just as a ballpark.
- sandworm101 9y ago
  Waiting in line is part of the voting process. Any sort of measurement of people waiting in lines will be a constitutional issue. What will the outcome be? A measurement saying too many poor people voted in an area?
  - nine_k 9y ago
    It could detect the carousel fraud, people voting repeatedly.
    - walshemj 9y ago
      why then is there no evidence of this happening regularly - this isn't the pre ww2 machine politics days.
      - topmonk 9y ago
        Yes, there is evidence: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fraud-isnt-myth-10-cases-where-its-all-to/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/17/no-voter-fr... There is also the MSM's tendency not to investigate, due to political correctness, the government's tendency to stone-wall to avoid looking incompetent, and the politicians' tendency to not pass laws that would hinder their chances of winning the next election.
        jcranmer 9y ago
        That's not evidence, for the most part. One thing about voter fraud: a lot of people who complain about how much it's happening love to cite the existence of inaccurate voter rolls. Those exist in spades, and no one doubts that. But every election, we compile a list of everyone who voted, so it should be a very easy matter to translate inaccuracies in registration to actual instances of voter fraud. Note that instead of citing actual counts, there's almost invariably a citation of potential fraud--and that's because the actual counts do not bear out the claims. Of course, the biggest reason that inaccurate voter registrations exist is because people don't contact the registries to tell them they've moved, and the government hasn't put much effort into trying to track down people when they move and actually update all the various registries. Cynically, one can suggest that the reason for the latter is that politicians would rather continue using the inaccurate voter registrations as an excuse to conduct voter intimidation than actually fix the problem.
        squiggleblaz 9y ago
        It's definitely the case that, in Australia, when automatic registration was introduced it was introduced and supported by the left-of-centre parties who pundits suppose would benefit from having extra voters on the roll, and weakly opposed by the right-of-centre parties who pundits suppose would be hurt from having the voters on the roll. But honestly, the idea that the government should track people down to put them in a registry strikes me as really unamerican, especially when you put it that way. I can imagine Democrats who would stand to benefit from it being like "That sounds yuck".

isaac_is_goat 9y ago

Why not just require government issued photo ID to vote?

the_cat_kittles 9y ago
i feel like i accidentally stumbled in to a r talking point. but ill take the bait: the id doesnt do anything to show you irregularities between the demographics and the results
walshemj 9y ago
Because You can use this to discriminate charge even $100 for this and it locks out poor and homeless people or you close places where you can register in the areas of where more of your opposition live.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
cryptoz 9y ago
It is the right of the citizens to vote. Citizens are not required to have government issued photo ID. If you make government issued photo ID a requirement to vote, you have violated the constitution and prevented legal citizens from voting. Voter fraud is not a real problem. Election fraud is, and election fraud is often carried out by removing legal citizens' right to vote, just as you described. When you see a state making laws about what ID you need to vote, you are watching election fraud in action.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  How do you prove you are a citizen?
  - cryptoz 9y ago
    You do not need to prove you are a citizen to vote. Voter registration requirements vary state to state. Typically states will request some form of identification, like a social security number, or a birth certificate, or something like that, if you do not have a photo ID, so they can verify who you are and that you did not vote twice. A government issued photo ID, or other proof of citizenship, is not required. That would be unconstitutional. Edit: California will even allow you to use a utility bill with your name and address as valid ID to vote, for example. No photo ID or citizenship requirement, and no voter fraud happening in California either.