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Valve is well known for being immune to the normal repercussions of having awful PR. For some reason, the market forgives them despite having downright hostile

by na85 9y ago

Valve is well known for being immune to the normal repercussions of having awful PR. For some reason, the market forgives them despite having downright hostile interaction with the community on a regular basis.

adnzzzzZ 9y ago
>For some reason, Maybe because none of this is relevant and everyone in this thread is getting upset over nothing. No real users have been harmed as a result of this measure (most people in the github issues thread have repos where they own or contribute to cheating software) and it seems to have worked to ban a number of cheaters. Seems like good engineering to me on their part when such a simple solution turns out to be so effective.
- anonymousab 9y ago
  > No real users have been harmed If they had, they wouldn't know why. That's one of the major parts of the problem - the entire ban system (and appeals process, or rather, the letter memory hole valve deigns to call a process) is opaque, a black box. You don't know why you're banned beyond "cheating/hacking" or "cheating in game X" in the best case. There's then the self-fulfilling silliness with the proclamations of perfection of VAC; you need such a high standard to prove the negative, that you did not cheat, and a ton of luck for them to even consider the possibility.
pdkl95 9y ago
> the market forgives them It's not forgiveness; Valve et al know that if they simply ignore the bad PR, people will forget and protesting becomes repetitive and tiresome. This is the insidious power of silence, and why actual change only happens when people refuse to go away until the problem is actually fixed. Without this continuous push back, silence transforms bad behavior into the new normal. Jim Sterling has a great video[1] that explains this problem in greater detail. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvDL4cNdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvDL4cNdM (warning: contains some strong language)

by na85 9y ago

adnzzzzZ 9y ago

>For some reason, Maybe because none of this is relevant and everyone in this thread is getting upset over nothing. No real users have been harmed as a result of this measure (most people in the github issues thread have repos where they own or contribute to cheating software) and it seems to have worked to ban a number of cheaters. Seems like good engineering to me on their part when such a simple solution turns out to be so effective.

anonymousab 9y ago
> No real users have been harmed If they had, they wouldn't know why. That's one of the major parts of the problem - the entire ban system (and appeals process, or rather, the letter memory hole valve deigns to call a process) is opaque, a black box. You don't know why you're banned beyond "cheating/hacking" or "cheating in game X" in the best case. There's then the self-fulfilling silliness with the proclamations of perfection of VAC; you need such a high standard to prove the negative, that you did not cheat, and a ton of luck for them to even consider the possibility.

pdkl95 9y ago

> the market forgives them It's not forgiveness; Valve et al know that if they simply ignore the bad PR, people will forget and protesting becomes repetitive and tiresome. This is the insidious power of silence, and why actual change only happens when people refuse to go away until the problem is actually fixed. Without this continuous push back, silence transforms bad behavior into the new normal. Jim Sterling has a great video[1] that explains this problem in greater detail. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvDL4cNdM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6lvDL4cNdM (warning: contains some strong language)