5 ms·

Wow if they had that 40 years ago it really makes you wonder what they have now.

kemiller2002 9y ago
You can call this pure conjecture if you will, but here's the story. Several years ago, I knew some people in a PhD physics program, and one of the guys there tells a story about an engineer he worked with during one of his summer internships during undergrad. He described this guy as one of those older rugged not quite polished types. The type that cursed a lot, and didn't really put up with anyone's crap. He was wicked smart though, and he'd been doing it a long time too. The story goes that the one of the government agencies approached him to help them work whatever they were doing at the time. I think he said this was around the 1950s. The engineer asked why should he work with the government when he gets to work on cutting edge stuff all the time anyway. Apparently, they let him see some of the things they had developed to entice him, and he said that it was easily 5 years beyond what anyone had seen. Is it true? Honestly, I don't know, but the guy telling the story at the time believed him, and this was in the same conversation where scientists were talking about how they could use satellite imaging to track where someone had walked 10 minutes before in a field. That was the unclassified version of what they could talk about.
- chris1993 9y ago
  Has any of this tech "trickled-down" to agricultural applications? The ability to track an individual seems like it could be used very effectively for livestock monitoring.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Biofuel did also quite likely many of Darpas biological protection projects trickled down eventually.
  - knz 9y ago
    It's probably not as effective as an ear tag and fence though (especially when you factor in real world conditions, a lack of unified technologies across any industry, and an unwillingness to invest in technology). That said, I have heard of remote sensing being used to monitor livestock and crops. The commercialization of UAV's is contributing to that.
- gozur88 9y ago
  I remember when astronomers started using lasers for distortion canceling. A buddy of mine had been working on spy sats for a decade and said the government was using the same technology (though in the other direction) when he arrived.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    Adaptive optics came from the military this wasn’t a secret. Hubble was built on a spy satellite bus. Military gets the shiny toys first the reason why we have such great gyro sensors today in phones is because solid state sensors were first developed for guided missiles.
    - jjoonathan 9y ago
      RLGs are in phones? I thought phone gyros were all still MEMS, hence the awful drift.
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        MEMS are replacing FOGs in many applications, Fiber Optic Gyros are the low cost version of RLGs. MEMS gyros are used in military INSs today can’t say if in missiles but in guided mortar shells and field artillery for sure.
        jjoonathan 9y ago
        Is that because MEMS is cheap (TCO, not BOM) and good enough or is it because MEMS is better? It's obviously not as good at drift, but I'm sure there are other dimensions of performance.
        dogma1138 9y ago
        Good enough MEMS aren’t good as laser ring gyros, a single sensor isn’t even good as fiber optics but multiple sensors with per sensor drift bias taken into account is good enough. You can’t strap a 150,000 INS on every shell you can’t even strap a 30,000 FOG INS on a shell. Basically since we now want INS and GPS on every bloody field equipment and anything above a 20mm grenade should be guided muinitions you have to make some compromises. And MEMS aren’t that bad yes they drift but for their usecases the drift is negligible.
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
It was easier for the government to be years ahead of private industry in the Cold War.

kemiller2002 9y ago

You can call this pure conjecture if you will, but here's the story. Several years ago, I knew some people in a PhD physics program, and one of the guys there tells a story about an engineer he worked with during one of his summer internships during undergrad. He described this guy as one of those older rugged not quite polished types. The type that cursed a lot, and didn't really put up with anyone's crap. He was wicked smart though, and he'd been doing it a long time too. The story goes that the one of the government agencies approached him to help them work whatever they were doing at the time. I think he said this was around the 1950s. The engineer asked why should he work with the government when he gets to work on cutting edge stuff all the time anyway. Apparently, they let him see some of the things they had developed to entice him, and he said that it was easily 5 years beyond what anyone had seen. Is it true? Honestly, I don't know, but the guy telling the story at the time believed him, and this was in the same conversation where scientists were talking about how they could use satellite imaging to track where someone had walked 10 minutes before in a field. That was the unclassified version of what they could talk about.

chris1993 9y ago
Has any of this tech "trickled-down" to agricultural applications? The ability to track an individual seems like it could be used very effectively for livestock monitoring.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Biofuel did also quite likely many of Darpas biological protection projects trickled down eventually.
- knz 9y ago
  It's probably not as effective as an ear tag and fence though (especially when you factor in real world conditions, a lack of unified technologies across any industry, and an unwillingness to invest in technology). That said, I have heard of remote sensing being used to monitor livestock and crops. The commercialization of UAV's is contributing to that.
gozur88 9y ago
I remember when astronomers started using lasers for distortion canceling. A buddy of mine had been working on spy sats for a decade and said the government was using the same technology (though in the other direction) when he arrived.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  Adaptive optics came from the military this wasn’t a secret. Hubble was built on a spy satellite bus. Military gets the shiny toys first the reason why we have such great gyro sensors today in phones is because solid state sensors were first developed for guided missiles.
  - jjoonathan 9y ago
    RLGs are in phones? I thought phone gyros were all still MEMS, hence the awful drift.
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      MEMS are replacing FOGs in many applications, Fiber Optic Gyros are the low cost version of RLGs. MEMS gyros are used in military INSs today can’t say if in missiles but in guided mortar shells and field artillery for sure.
      - jjoonathan 9y ago
        Is that because MEMS is cheap (TCO, not BOM) and good enough or is it because MEMS is better? It's obviously not as good at drift, but I'm sure there are other dimensions of performance.
        dogma1138 9y ago
        Good enough MEMS aren’t good as laser ring gyros, a single sensor isn’t even good as fiber optics but multiple sensors with per sensor drift bias taken into account is good enough. You can’t strap a 150,000 INS on every shell you can’t even strap a 30,000 FOG INS on a shell. Basically since we now want INS and GPS on every bloody field equipment and anything above a 20mm grenade should be guided muinitions you have to make some compromises. And MEMS aren’t that bad yes they drift but for their usecases the drift is negligible.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

It was easier for the government to be years ahead of private industry in the Cold War.