4 ms·

Banning a whole class of people because some of them might do (or even have done) bad things is an extraordinarily dangerous idea that can cause some serious pr

Banning a whole class of people because some of them might do (or even have done) bad things is an extraordinarily dangerous idea that can cause some serious problems if it becomes considered fully acceptable. It's also a perfect example of where this "psychosis" is leading us and how its a much bigger problem than an extra hour at the airport spent playing pretend.

verroq 9y ago
You don’t want them in America anyway because their religion is largely incompatible with western ideals and culture. Their treatment of women, lgbt groups, free speech, for example are conflict with a harmonious western society. People don’t hate them for believing in their religion, the problem is that they believe in a religion that openly calls for the death of cartoonists, gays and jews or anyone that insults it. If you are one religion that interferes with other people’s ability to practice their faith then that one religion is the problem.
- mLuby 9y ago
  >You don’t want them in America anyway because their religion is largely incompatible with western ideals and culture. Their treatment of women, lgbt groups, free speech, for example are conflict with a harmonious western society. You're talking about Christians, right?
  - dang 9y ago
    Responding to a religious flamewar comment with another religious flamewar comment is exactly the wrong thing to do here, and will get your account banned as well—regardless of how wrong and provocative any other user was. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again. If you do, you'll see that the guidelines say exactly what to do, and not to do, in cases like this.
- 549362-30499 9y ago
  Muslims, just like Christians, range from so-secular-they-don't-even-pray to fundamentalists eg Wahhabism. So regardless of the blatant unconstitutionality of such a law, it's also just laughably ignorant to suggest that all Muslims believe the same thing and have the same attitude about "western ideals and culture" (whatever that means).
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  > Their treatment of women, lgbt groups, free speech, for example are conflict with a harmonious western society. That's true of Christianity too, yet there are no serious calls for a Christian ban.
- dashundchen 9y ago
  Hard to take politicians arguing for that seriously when they also attack LGBT or women's rights, free speech and press, and let Christian theocrats trample the separation of church and state. Not to mention the unwillingness to acknowledge, much less address the huge domestic right wing, white supremacist and Christian terrorism movements here.
- ljm 9y ago
  The religion is calling for nothing, it's the people who are dogmatic about the religion and take their interpretations to hateful extremes who are calling for something. The harmonious western society, in the US in particular but not alone, is still pretty discordant for black people, poor people, and immigrants. It goes far beyond women and sexuality, and shifting blame onto other religions and immigrants who can check some anti-diversity boxes is a great way to avoid the essence of the problem that has existed at home for a really long time.
- beamatronic 9y ago
  But have you not noticed that among people of any religion, there is more often these days a tendency to "pick and choose" the best part of the traditional teachings. For example, across different Christian faiths, you're more likely to hear about love and acceptance than being dammed to hell. Nobody wants to hear that second part, so it got dropped.
- dang 9y ago
  Religious flamewar is not allowed on Hacker News. If you post like this again we will ban you. More generally, it's an abuse of HN to use it for ideological or political battle and we ban accounts that primarily do that. I wouldn't say your history is primarily doing that, but having taken a quick look, there have been clear stretches of it, plus some evidence that you've abused the site quite badly with throwaway accounts. Would you please not do those things? We're trying to have a place for thoughtful conversation and intellectual curiosity. That means everyone here has to exercise some discipline in response to divisive topics and not head straight for the bottoms of the barrel. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dominotw 9y ago
> Banning a whole class of people Which class of people was banned? class = citizenship of a country ?
- dashundchen 9y ago
  It's disingenuous to pretend that wasn't the intent - Trump campaigned on a Muslim ban (yes, he and his campaign called for that). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.fce82e37e07f https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/tr... http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-b... http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-muslim-ban-statement-website-2017-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-muslim-ban-sta...
  - dominotw 9y ago
    I am a muslim from India(one of the largest muslim countries in the world), i've travelled 2 times into Chicago since the ban. I think you are using some sort of slippery slope argument, "banning class of people" is not true today, we should just be assuming that is true based on intent? Intent is truth?
    - Avshalom 9y ago
      We aren't reading his mind, we're listening to his words.
      - dominotw 9y ago
        I understand, I am not saying those are not his intents. I am saying why should we assume that its already the case when its clearly not. "banning whole class of people" is a false statement, right? Its really weird to say something bogus and say its true. Its like me saying "America has achieved complete energy independence" today because trump campaign promised it.

verroq 9y ago

You don’t want them in America anyway because their religion is largely incompatible with western ideals and culture. Their treatment of women, lgbt groups, free speech, for example are conflict with a harmonious western society. People don’t hate them for believing in their religion, the problem is that they believe in a religion that openly calls for the death of cartoonists, gays and jews or anyone that insults it. If you are one religion that interferes with other people’s ability to practice their faith then that one religion is the problem.

mLuby 9y ago
>You don’t want them in America anyway because their religion is largely incompatible with western ideals and culture. Their treatment of women, lgbt groups, free speech, for example are conflict with a harmonious western society. You're talking about Christians, right?
- dang 9y ago
  Responding to a religious flamewar comment with another religious flamewar comment is exactly the wrong thing to do here, and will get your account banned as well—regardless of how wrong and provocative any other user was. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't post like this again. If you do, you'll see that the guidelines say exactly what to do, and not to do, in cases like this.
549362-30499 9y ago
Muslims, just like Christians, range from so-secular-they-don't-even-pray to fundamentalists eg Wahhabism. So regardless of the blatant unconstitutionality of such a law, it's also just laughably ignorant to suggest that all Muslims believe the same thing and have the same attitude about "western ideals and culture" (whatever that means).
daveFNbuck 9y ago
> Their treatment of women, lgbt groups, free speech, for example are conflict with a harmonious western society. That's true of Christianity too, yet there are no serious calls for a Christian ban.
dashundchen 9y ago
Hard to take politicians arguing for that seriously when they also attack LGBT or women's rights, free speech and press, and let Christian theocrats trample the separation of church and state. Not to mention the unwillingness to acknowledge, much less address the huge domestic right wing, white supremacist and Christian terrorism movements here.
ljm 9y ago
The religion is calling for nothing, it's the people who are dogmatic about the religion and take their interpretations to hateful extremes who are calling for something. The harmonious western society, in the US in particular but not alone, is still pretty discordant for black people, poor people, and immigrants. It goes far beyond women and sexuality, and shifting blame onto other religions and immigrants who can check some anti-diversity boxes is a great way to avoid the essence of the problem that has existed at home for a really long time.
beamatronic 9y ago
But have you not noticed that among people of any religion, there is more often these days a tendency to "pick and choose" the best part of the traditional teachings. For example, across different Christian faiths, you're more likely to hear about love and acceptance than being dammed to hell. Nobody wants to hear that second part, so it got dropped.
dang 9y ago
Religious flamewar is not allowed on Hacker News. If you post like this again we will ban you. More generally, it's an abuse of HN to use it for ideological or political battle and we ban accounts that primarily do that. I wouldn't say your history is primarily doing that, but having taken a quick look, there have been clear stretches of it, plus some evidence that you've abused the site quite badly with throwaway accounts. Would you please not do those things? We're trying to have a place for thoughtful conversation and intellectual curiosity. That means everyone here has to exercise some discipline in response to divisive topics and not head straight for the bottoms of the barrel. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dominotw 9y ago

> Banning a whole class of people Which class of people was banned? class = citizenship of a country ?

dashundchen 9y ago
It's disingenuous to pretend that wasn't the intent - Trump campaigned on a Muslim ban (yes, he and his campaign called for that). https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/trump-asked-for-a-muslim-ban-giuliani-says-and-ordered-a-commission-to-do-it-legally/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.fce82e37e07f https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/29/tr... http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-ban-immigration/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/07/politics/donald-trump-muslim-b... http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-muslim-ban-statement-website-2017-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-campaign-muslim-ban-sta...
- dominotw 9y ago
  I am a muslim from India(one of the largest muslim countries in the world), i've travelled 2 times into Chicago since the ban. I think you are using some sort of slippery slope argument, "banning class of people" is not true today, we should just be assuming that is true based on intent? Intent is truth?
  - Avshalom 9y ago
    We aren't reading his mind, we're listening to his words.
    - dominotw 9y ago
      I understand, I am not saying those are not his intents. I am saying why should we assume that its already the case when its clearly not. "banning whole class of people" is a false statement, right? Its really weird to say something bogus and say its true. Its like me saying "America has achieved complete energy independence" today because trump campaign promised it.