5 ms·

> You'd have to ban them owning property or businesses in the country too. Otherwise they'd just stay but without citizenship or taxes. This is why we need the

by mcny 9y ago

> You'd have to ban them owning property or businesses in the country too. Otherwise they'd just stay but without citizenship or taxes. This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. > For 2017, the estate and gift tax exemption is $5.49 million per individual, up from $5.45 million in 2016. That means an individual can leave $5.49 million to heirs and pay no federal estate or gift tax. This is plenty generous. We should tax any estate beyond that at a minimum of fifty percent and close all loopholes. I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it.

mantas 9y ago
> This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. > I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it. VAT is sort of like income tax for businesses. Except it's not taxed on B2B transactions. Which makes sense. Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs.
- mcny 9y ago
  > How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. If the property is just sitting there not making money, they are welcome to keep paying property taxes and pay income tax if/when they sell it. I sincerely believe you have to pay income tax for any income in the US regardless of citizenship status or residency status. > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. Don't we already have that?
  - mantas 9y ago
    > Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. > > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. > Don't we already have that? Huh? There're lots of SMBs in pretty much any country in the world. And most people are employed by them, not by a bunch of mega companies.
    - mcny 9y ago
      > Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) Double taxing happens all the time. There is no rhyme or reason to tax policy. It just is. Why should I pay sales tax when I've already paid income tax? Why should a corporation pay income tax if shareholders will also pay income tax? This is a red herring. Property must not pass generation to generation unscathed. Too much concentration of wealth is good for nobody, even for the 0.0001% > On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. As with peering, I am sure there are knowledgeable people in positions whose job it is to ensure that we get something out of these double-tax agreements. If these entities become a nuisance, there are many ways (preferably peaceful) to deal with them.
      - mantas 9y ago
        Your examples are not double taxes, but rather colliding taxes. Sales tax is great to be put incentives for purchases. E.g. lower sales tax for healthy food. Or to make sure tourists are taxed as well. Corporation profit tax ensures foreign shareholders are taxed. While shareholders tax ensures people having businesses in other countries pay their share too. Meanwhile heritage tax involves no additional action and taxes exactly what was already taxed. > Property must not pass generation to generation unscathed. Too much concentration of wealth is good for nobody, even for the 0.0001% There's no way to tax all generational wealth transfer. Parents will keep buying their kids houses and cars and paying for their education. I doubt you want to tax a regular family paying for kids' university. Meanwhile those who you want to tax already figured out all sorts of workarounds. Trust funds etc. > As with peering, I am sure there are knowledgeable people in positions whose job it is to ensure that we get something out of these double-tax agreements. If these entities become a nuisance, there are many ways (preferably peaceful) to deal with them. They do help everybody who do legitimate business across borders. There's nothing stopping for someone to move to another country and do business in their old country in such manner. It'd be 100% legitimate. Unless you'd ban your own ex-citizens/residents from such scheme :) Which would be a huge PITA to keep track of. Taxing any cross-borders business would mean other countries taxing your own businesses as well. Which would mean companies moving out their HQs and developing elaborate schemes to work around this. All in all, what you want to do would hurt middle class and small businesses. While the ultra-rich couldn't care less. In fact, they'd just hide away even more assets. Effectively widening the gap.
Stefstefstef 9y ago
thats insane thats about 10X more than we have in Europe
- mcny 9y ago
  My proposal is only 50% for inheritance above the limit (and likely 0%) under the limit. So if you want to leave $6M, and the limit is $5.95M then taxes are due only $0.05M. that's just $25k in taxes on a $6M wealth transfer.

by mcny 9y ago

mantas 9y ago

> This is why we need the estate tax (Paris Hilton tax or death tax as opponents like to say) to stay and probably increase in rate. How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. > I am not a big fan of income tax on businesses but I can see why we need it. VAT is sort of like income tax for businesses. Except it's not taxed on B2B transactions. Which makes sense. Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs.

mcny 9y ago
> How is it relevant to giving up citizenship and owning property or company? There's no death involved. If their children are not citizen either, they are not hit by inheritance tax too. Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. If the property is just sitting there not making money, they are welcome to keep paying property taxes and pay income tax if/when they sell it. I sincerely believe you have to pay income tax for any income in the US regardless of citizenship status or residency status. > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. Don't we already have that?
- mantas 9y ago
  > Doesn't sound right but I am not an accountant. If someone makes money in the US, they should have to pay income tax in the US regardless of citizenship or residency status, even if they have never entered the US. I consider anything less a loophole we need to fix. Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. > > Otherwise everybody would bring in whole production chain in-house and we'd be left with huge conglomerates and no SMBs. > Don't we already have that? Huh? There're lots of SMBs in pretty much any country in the world. And most people are employed by them, not by a bunch of mega companies.
  - mcny 9y ago
    > Which is not the same as estate/inheritance/death tax at all. Which is double-taxing what a given person already paid for. Being a (grand)son of someone ain't a job to pay incomes tax for.. :) Double taxing happens all the time. There is no rhyme or reason to tax policy. It just is. Why should I pay sales tax when I've already paid income tax? Why should a corporation pay income tax if shareholders will also pay income tax? This is a red herring. Property must not pass generation to generation unscathed. Too much concentration of wealth is good for nobody, even for the 0.0001% > On top of that, there're lots of ways to dodge the US income tax. For example, many countries have double-tax agreements. Where you pay taxes in your residence country. Stay 185 days in the other country, do most of the business remotely and you can forget US incomes tax. As with peering, I am sure there are knowledgeable people in positions whose job it is to ensure that we get something out of these double-tax agreements. If these entities become a nuisance, there are many ways (preferably peaceful) to deal with them.
    - mantas 9y ago
      Your examples are not double taxes, but rather colliding taxes. Sales tax is great to be put incentives for purchases. E.g. lower sales tax for healthy food. Or to make sure tourists are taxed as well. Corporation profit tax ensures foreign shareholders are taxed. While shareholders tax ensures people having businesses in other countries pay their share too. Meanwhile heritage tax involves no additional action and taxes exactly what was already taxed. > Property must not pass generation to generation unscathed. Too much concentration of wealth is good for nobody, even for the 0.0001% There's no way to tax all generational wealth transfer. Parents will keep buying their kids houses and cars and paying for their education. I doubt you want to tax a regular family paying for kids' university. Meanwhile those who you want to tax already figured out all sorts of workarounds. Trust funds etc. > As with peering, I am sure there are knowledgeable people in positions whose job it is to ensure that we get something out of these double-tax agreements. If these entities become a nuisance, there are many ways (preferably peaceful) to deal with them. They do help everybody who do legitimate business across borders. There's nothing stopping for someone to move to another country and do business in their old country in such manner. It'd be 100% legitimate. Unless you'd ban your own ex-citizens/residents from such scheme :) Which would be a huge PITA to keep track of. Taxing any cross-borders business would mean other countries taxing your own businesses as well. Which would mean companies moving out their HQs and developing elaborate schemes to work around this. All in all, what you want to do would hurt middle class and small businesses. While the ultra-rich couldn't care less. In fact, they'd just hide away even more assets. Effectively widening the gap.

Stefstefstef 9y ago

thats insane thats about 10X more than we have in Europe

mcny 9y ago
My proposal is only 50% for inheritance above the limit (and likely 0%) under the limit. So if you want to leave $6M, and the limit is $5.95M then taxes are due only $0.05M. that's just $25k in taxes on a $6M wealth transfer.