6 ms·

Winning a particular market segment does not a monopoly make.

blantonl 16y ago
unless that particular market segment is making a market.
_delirium 16y ago
I thought that was the definition of a monopoly? I mean, Standard Oil didn't own the coal market, but they were still a monopoly, because they did own the oil market.
- semanticist 16y ago
  Apple could only have a monopoly in the mobile market if I couldn't walk into a shop and buy a competing product. In fact, if I walk into a mobile phone shop, I've overwhelmed with competing products and can hardly see the iPhone.
  - gloob 16y ago
    Even at the height of Microsoft's reign, you could still walk into a shop and buy a Mac. Just sayin'.
    - semanticist 16y ago
      Apple don't have a majority of the smartphone market, let alone the mobile phone market in general. Windows had a market share of over 90%. Five years ago you could have made an argument for Symbian being the Evil Monopoly in this market, but Apple/iOS has never been anything like a monopoly. People seem to confuse control over one device with an actual monopoly. They're not even remotely the same thing.
      - Gibbon 16y ago
        Apple doesn't even lead the smartphone market (yet), RIM does. I'm sure they will catch up quick but RIM had 40% of the market last time I checked and Apple had 25%. They have 90% of the mp3 market and 75% of the mp3 player market but that's still not a monopoly. The only thing they could be accused of is a monopoly on non-crappy web apps. Pretty amusing.
        semanticist 16y ago
        Those figures might be true only for the US/North America, but worldwide Symbian has almost 45%, RIM a little under 20%, iPhone just over 15%, and Android just under 10%. (As of Q1, 2010, pre-iPhone 4, source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1372013 http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1372013) No one seems to mind their MP3 player monopoly because the iPod was so much better than the alternatives.
        Gibbon 16y ago
        Yeah I was referring to the smartphone market rather than the mobile market. Smartphones aren't expected to reach 50% mobile market share until Q3 2011.
        semanticist 16y ago
        The numbers I mentioned are specifically for the smartphone market - 'Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 1Q10 (Thousands of Units)'. Most people on HN have a really poor understanding of the global market. The US leaders are not the world leaders in the mobile space.
- CapitalistCartr 16y ago
  A monopoly is when a company actively prevents other companies from entering "their" market. Such as by buying them all up, or using their deep pockets to force them out. Not by producing a better product.
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Wrong. A monopoly is when a company has such market control that they can dictate the terms of the market. What you're describing is abuse of a monopoly. Example, iTunes is nearing monopoly status in that they can largely tell the industry, "I don't like your DRM proposal, and we're so big that even if every other company wants to do it one way, you can't. You have to listen to us". Now remember monopolies are not illegal. But actions of monopolists can be.
- spoondan 16y ago
  Belatedly: While "owning a market" is a serviceable definition of a monopoly, it's not what I wrote about and it has no relationship to Apple's position in the smartphone market (or, really, any other market). A "market segment" is not a "market", and "winning" is not "owning".

unless that particular market segment is making a market.

I thought that was the definition of a monopoly? I mean, Standard Oil didn't own the coal market, but they were still a monopoly, because they did own the oil market.

semanticist 16y ago
Apple could only have a monopoly in the mobile market if I couldn't walk into a shop and buy a competing product. In fact, if I walk into a mobile phone shop, I've overwhelmed with competing products and can hardly see the iPhone.
- gloob 16y ago
  Even at the height of Microsoft's reign, you could still walk into a shop and buy a Mac. Just sayin'.
  - semanticist 16y ago
    Apple don't have a majority of the smartphone market, let alone the mobile phone market in general. Windows had a market share of over 90%. Five years ago you could have made an argument for Symbian being the Evil Monopoly in this market, but Apple/iOS has never been anything like a monopoly. People seem to confuse control over one device with an actual monopoly. They're not even remotely the same thing.
    - Gibbon 16y ago
      Apple doesn't even lead the smartphone market (yet), RIM does. I'm sure they will catch up quick but RIM had 40% of the market last time I checked and Apple had 25%. They have 90% of the mp3 market and 75% of the mp3 player market but that's still not a monopoly. The only thing they could be accused of is a monopoly on non-crappy web apps. Pretty amusing.
      - semanticist 16y ago
        Those figures might be true only for the US/North America, but worldwide Symbian has almost 45%, RIM a little under 20%, iPhone just over 15%, and Android just under 10%. (As of Q1, 2010, pre-iPhone 4, source: http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1372013 http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1372013) No one seems to mind their MP3 player monopoly because the iPod was so much better than the alternatives.
        Gibbon 16y ago
        Yeah I was referring to the smartphone market rather than the mobile market. Smartphones aren't expected to reach 50% mobile market share until Q3 2011.
        semanticist 16y ago
        The numbers I mentioned are specifically for the smartphone market - 'Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 1Q10 (Thousands of Units)'. Most people on HN have a really poor understanding of the global market. The US leaders are not the world leaders in the mobile space.
CapitalistCartr 16y ago
A monopoly is when a company actively prevents other companies from entering "their" market. Such as by buying them all up, or using their deep pockets to force them out. Not by producing a better product.
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Wrong. A monopoly is when a company has such market control that they can dictate the terms of the market. What you're describing is abuse of a monopoly. Example, iTunes is nearing monopoly status in that they can largely tell the industry, "I don't like your DRM proposal, and we're so big that even if every other company wants to do it one way, you can't. You have to listen to us". Now remember monopolies are not illegal. But actions of monopolists can be.
spoondan 16y ago
Belatedly: While "owning a market" is a serviceable definition of a monopoly, it's not what I wrote about and it has no relationship to Apple's position in the smartphone market (or, really, any other market). A "market segment" is not a "market", and "winning" is not "owning".