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After reading the above and an article by Glenn Greenwald [1] on ag-gag laws and the mistreatment of industrial animals, I've stopped eating meat unless I've me

After reading the above and an article by Glenn Greenwald [1] on ag-gag laws and the mistreatment of industrial animals, I've stopped eating meat unless I've met the farmer and (ideally) seen the farm. I'm vegetarian outside the house, and our family ordered a half a cow from a farmer who lives ~30 minutes away. It was butchered by a small shop. I received something like 200+lbs of meat from a single animal, raised well, grass fed at a cost of around $8/lb. The lifestyle change has been far easier than I expected, and it feels like a decision that actually has a local impact. (As opposed to, say, tweeting outrage.) There's a whole bunch of support for making this change that I wasn't aware of. If you are in the NW, Seattle Tilth puts out a guide to all the regional farms [2], and most of them have websites and email contact info. [1] https://theintercept.com/2017/10/05/factory-farms-fbi-missing-piglets-animal-rights-glenn-greenwald/ https://theintercept.com/2017/10/05/factory-farms-fbi-missin... [2] http://www.pugetsoundfresh.org/ http://www.pugetsoundfresh.org/

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
> I received something like 200+lbs of meat from a single animal, raised well, grass fed at a cost of around $8/lb. The lifestyle change has been far easier than I expected I think this illustrates why it's so hard to make any large-scale progress on industrial animal welfare. I'm glad that this works for you and you're able to make a difference in your own life, but spending $1600 on meat, even 200lbs of meat, is not an option that most people have.
- cageface 9y ago
  Giving up meat entirely is an option everybody has. Plant based diets are not only cheaper but healthier. I switched to a plant based diet in 2017 and it's the best decision I've made in a long time. I feel better physically and mentally and feel better about the role I play on the planet too.
  - PostOnce 9y ago
    Everyone who just switched to a new thing, vegetarianism, p90x, atkins, paleo, crossfit, standing desk, node.js, whatever, will tell you it's the greatest thing ever. You "switched in 2017", it's 2017 now. It would be more impactful if you said this 5 years on, and a lot of other people who'd been doing it for 5 years said the same. There's a lot more to not-plants than a steak, though. Fish and milk and eggs and cheese and shellfish and who knows. That is a huge variety of food, of flavors, of sources and methods for farming, giving it all up is arguably as-healthy, not healthier, and certainly much, much more boring. Also, harder to sustain, it's easy to find food with meat in it, plenty of places have few vegan/vegetarian options.
    - cageface 9y ago
      Plant based diets are nothing new. We have plenty of data on the long-term health benefits of this diet from many studies and many populations. There are Olympic weight lifters, triathletes, world class tennis players etc that have followed this diet for years. It's true it can sometimes be hard to find vegan options, depending on where you live, but the situation has improved massively in the last few years. The number of vegans in the UK has almost quadrupled in the last 10 years, for example, with a corresponding rise in products, restaurants etc: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/number-of-vegans-in-britain-rises-by-360-in-10-years/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/number-of-veg...
  - dizzystar 9y ago
    Actually, moving entirely to plant-based diets is not feasible for everyone due to allergies and other food-related issues. For a certain subset of the population, getting the appropriate amount of protein and other nutrients would be nigh impossible since those foods could make them incredibly ill or kill them.
    - cageface 9y ago
      Sure. Many people are allergic to meat or fish too. 65% of the world population is intolerant to lactose. There will never be a single diet that works every single human on the planet. But the overwhelming majority of us can not only live but thrive on a plant based diet. People also mistakenly put way too much emphasis on protein and not nearly enough on other nutrients. The average American, for example, gets way more protein than they need and not nearly enough dietary fiber.
      - dizzystar 9y ago
        My basic issue with sweeping diet generalizations is that it often excludes many people. As someone who has this very problem, I am confused by the strange diets everyone is on. If only I had that choice! (I generally dissociate myself from vegetarians and their ilk because I loathe talking about it) Regarding the topic of too much protein, nutrition doesn't quite work that way. You can't go tick-tock on your diet just because you have too much protein today; you will need protein until the day you die. You also need suger, fat, salt, and yes, fiber. It's also quite wrong to say everyone could be on a vegetarian / vegan diet because you well know that it's quite dangerous if it isn't followed correctly, and lo and behold, the average American is overweight. We can sort of blame the new trend diets for the lack of fiber.
        cageface 9y ago
        Heart disease is the leading killer in the US right now, the risk of which is almost zero on a whole food, plant based diet. Your risk of cancer and diabetes also go way up on a diet rich in animal products. Vegans are also the only demographic with a normal body mass index, and obesity is linked to many other health issues. Which diet is dangerous again? Unless you're eating a really weird diet it's almost impossible to get enough calories but not enough protein. Eating a healthy vegan diet is easy and easier now than it's ever been with the wealth of information out there.
- oldandtired 9y ago
  If you budget properly, then it is no problem. If you say you are unable to budget because you are poor then you are just deluding yourself. I have been well off and poor and if you look at what you are spending you cash on very carefully, you can make changes that allow you to get ahead, even if only a small way. I just watched a local lady buy 3 packs of fags (30 per pack) and she spent $90+ on those items. That's the equivalent of a week's food for the five of us at home (youngest is 16, eldest is 58). The process above of buying from a farmer and getting a butcher to slaughter and pack is something we have done over the years. I have even slaughtered and butchered sheep myself, an interesting task but well worth the effort to learn. Best mutton I have ever had.
  - PhasmaFelis 9y ago
    > If you budget properly, then it is no problem. If you say you are unable to budget because you are poor then you are just deluding yourself. I know people for whom $1600 is more than a month's pay. No amount of budgeting makes it reasonable or responsible to spend that on meat. For that matter, I know people who work their asses off and budget their expenditures down to the penny and are still living paycheck-to-paycheck. I think you're deluding yourself about just how poor "poor" can be.
    - oldandtired 9y ago
      Budgeting their expenditures down to the penny can be a problem in itself. It is what and how they spend their pennies that determine whether they live from one pay to the next. In many cases, it takes self-discipline to control what you spend your hard-earned pennies on. In the case you mention, how much of that $1600 is spent of optional niceties and how much on actual necessities? I know of people (friends) who can take $100 and buy 2 or 3 weeks of food for a family of 4. It take a lot of judicious planning to do so, but it is doable. If the area you are in does not allow such planning, then it is time to move away to a better place. One can join other people and buy in bulk. One can use the base ingredients to make your own cereals. There are so many different things that can be done.
      - 9y ago
- anonymous5133 9y ago
  The vast majority of that "cheap" meat is heavily processed and extremely unhealthy for you. I would say that it is a major contributor to our obesity epidemic. The average american is consuming far is excess of the amount of protein they should be consuming. In reality, they should be obtaining their protein from plant based sources which are high in fiber and lack of negatives of meat.
- scruple 9y ago
  It depends entirely on where you live. In rural Ohio, my parents have been buying farm raised cattle from family friends and having it processed locally for something like 4 decades. It's mundane, commonplace. But, where your absolutely correct, is that it's also _significantly_ cheaper than what I pay for it in California. The worst of it is that I have to source from north of the bay area and I live in Orange county. The farm I do business with (I did visit them once, many years ago when I first came to CA) has a processor on site and handles delivery, but my last order for a quarter came out to something like $9.80/lb. My parents are still paying under $3/lb. back home. I'd love to order a half but I can't afford it and so my wife and I just don't eat a lot of beef as a result.
- Pfhreak 9y ago
  We split it with many families, each paying for a share of the larger amount. I recognize not everyone will be able to coordinate with a group of families, or have a local farmers market. But many of us do, and may not be aware this option even exists.
joevandyk 9y ago
I started work at Crowd Cow earlier this year as a way to feel better about what I eat. Our goal is to let people know about their food and purchase from farms they like. https://www.crowdcow.com https://www.crowdcow.com
- Pfhreak 9y ago
  We actually looked at crowd cow, but at the time, the animals were grain finished, which we were trying to avoid. Still, a great resource for folks!

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

> I received something like 200+lbs of meat from a single animal, raised well, grass fed at a cost of around $8/lb. The lifestyle change has been far easier than I expected I think this illustrates why it's so hard to make any large-scale progress on industrial animal welfare. I'm glad that this works for you and you're able to make a difference in your own life, but spending $1600 on meat, even 200lbs of meat, is not an option that most people have.

cageface 9y ago
Giving up meat entirely is an option everybody has. Plant based diets are not only cheaper but healthier. I switched to a plant based diet in 2017 and it's the best decision I've made in a long time. I feel better physically and mentally and feel better about the role I play on the planet too.
- PostOnce 9y ago
  Everyone who just switched to a new thing, vegetarianism, p90x, atkins, paleo, crossfit, standing desk, node.js, whatever, will tell you it's the greatest thing ever. You "switched in 2017", it's 2017 now. It would be more impactful if you said this 5 years on, and a lot of other people who'd been doing it for 5 years said the same. There's a lot more to not-plants than a steak, though. Fish and milk and eggs and cheese and shellfish and who knows. That is a huge variety of food, of flavors, of sources and methods for farming, giving it all up is arguably as-healthy, not healthier, and certainly much, much more boring. Also, harder to sustain, it's easy to find food with meat in it, plenty of places have few vegan/vegetarian options.
  - cageface 9y ago
    Plant based diets are nothing new. We have plenty of data on the long-term health benefits of this diet from many studies and many populations. There are Olympic weight lifters, triathletes, world class tennis players etc that have followed this diet for years. It's true it can sometimes be hard to find vegan options, depending on where you live, but the situation has improved massively in the last few years. The number of vegans in the UK has almost quadrupled in the last 10 years, for example, with a corresponding rise in products, restaurants etc: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/number-of-vegans-in-britain-rises-by-360-in-10-years/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/food-and-drink/news/number-of-veg...
- dizzystar 9y ago
  Actually, moving entirely to plant-based diets is not feasible for everyone due to allergies and other food-related issues. For a certain subset of the population, getting the appropriate amount of protein and other nutrients would be nigh impossible since those foods could make them incredibly ill or kill them.
  - cageface 9y ago
    Sure. Many people are allergic to meat or fish too. 65% of the world population is intolerant to lactose. There will never be a single diet that works every single human on the planet. But the overwhelming majority of us can not only live but thrive on a plant based diet. People also mistakenly put way too much emphasis on protein and not nearly enough on other nutrients. The average American, for example, gets way more protein than they need and not nearly enough dietary fiber.
    - dizzystar 9y ago
      My basic issue with sweeping diet generalizations is that it often excludes many people. As someone who has this very problem, I am confused by the strange diets everyone is on. If only I had that choice! (I generally dissociate myself from vegetarians and their ilk because I loathe talking about it) Regarding the topic of too much protein, nutrition doesn't quite work that way. You can't go tick-tock on your diet just because you have too much protein today; you will need protein until the day you die. You also need suger, fat, salt, and yes, fiber. It's also quite wrong to say everyone could be on a vegetarian / vegan diet because you well know that it's quite dangerous if it isn't followed correctly, and lo and behold, the average American is overweight. We can sort of blame the new trend diets for the lack of fiber.
      - cageface 9y ago
        Heart disease is the leading killer in the US right now, the risk of which is almost zero on a whole food, plant based diet. Your risk of cancer and diabetes also go way up on a diet rich in animal products. Vegans are also the only demographic with a normal body mass index, and obesity is linked to many other health issues. Which diet is dangerous again? Unless you're eating a really weird diet it's almost impossible to get enough calories but not enough protein. Eating a healthy vegan diet is easy and easier now than it's ever been with the wealth of information out there.
oldandtired 9y ago
If you budget properly, then it is no problem. If you say you are unable to budget because you are poor then you are just deluding yourself. I have been well off and poor and if you look at what you are spending you cash on very carefully, you can make changes that allow you to get ahead, even if only a small way. I just watched a local lady buy 3 packs of fags (30 per pack) and she spent $90+ on those items. That's the equivalent of a week's food for the five of us at home (youngest is 16, eldest is 58). The process above of buying from a farmer and getting a butcher to slaughter and pack is something we have done over the years. I have even slaughtered and butchered sheep myself, an interesting task but well worth the effort to learn. Best mutton I have ever had.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  > If you budget properly, then it is no problem. If you say you are unable to budget because you are poor then you are just deluding yourself. I know people for whom $1600 is more than a month's pay. No amount of budgeting makes it reasonable or responsible to spend that on meat. For that matter, I know people who work their asses off and budget their expenditures down to the penny and are still living paycheck-to-paycheck. I think you're deluding yourself about just how poor "poor" can be.
  - oldandtired 9y ago
    Budgeting their expenditures down to the penny can be a problem in itself. It is what and how they spend their pennies that determine whether they live from one pay to the next. In many cases, it takes self-discipline to control what you spend your hard-earned pennies on. In the case you mention, how much of that $1600 is spent of optional niceties and how much on actual necessities? I know of people (friends) who can take $100 and buy 2 or 3 weeks of food for a family of 4. It take a lot of judicious planning to do so, but it is doable. If the area you are in does not allow such planning, then it is time to move away to a better place. One can join other people and buy in bulk. One can use the base ingredients to make your own cereals. There are so many different things that can be done.
    - 9y ago
anonymous5133 9y ago
The vast majority of that "cheap" meat is heavily processed and extremely unhealthy for you. I would say that it is a major contributor to our obesity epidemic. The average american is consuming far is excess of the amount of protein they should be consuming. In reality, they should be obtaining their protein from plant based sources which are high in fiber and lack of negatives of meat.
scruple 9y ago
It depends entirely on where you live. In rural Ohio, my parents have been buying farm raised cattle from family friends and having it processed locally for something like 4 decades. It's mundane, commonplace. But, where your absolutely correct, is that it's also _significantly_ cheaper than what I pay for it in California. The worst of it is that I have to source from north of the bay area and I live in Orange county. The farm I do business with (I did visit them once, many years ago when I first came to CA) has a processor on site and handles delivery, but my last order for a quarter came out to something like $9.80/lb. My parents are still paying under $3/lb. back home. I'd love to order a half but I can't afford it and so my wife and I just don't eat a lot of beef as a result.
Pfhreak 9y ago
We split it with many families, each paying for a share of the larger amount. I recognize not everyone will be able to coordinate with a group of families, or have a local farmers market. But many of us do, and may not be aware this option even exists.

joevandyk 9y ago

I started work at Crowd Cow earlier this year as a way to feel better about what I eat. Our goal is to let people know about their food and purchase from farms they like. https://www.crowdcow.com https://www.crowdcow.com

Pfhreak 9y ago
We actually looked at crowd cow, but at the time, the animals were grain finished, which we were trying to avoid. Still, a great resource for folks!